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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 7932488" data-attributes="member: 87792">Indeed. And one of the key ways they did that was Lay on Hands - there were very few sources of surgeless healing in 4e - almost all the leader abilities let people spend healing surges, allowing them to dig in to their own reserves as if e.g. a Sergeant Major was shouting at them or their girlfriend was desperately imploring them to get off the mat. Meanwhile all PHB Paladins could spend their own life force through Lay on Hands to let their allies heal. They also had a Channel Divinity ability to allow allies to make a saving throw to shrug off magic. And yes, the Invoker and the Avenger both had their abilities to help hand out saving throws - while the Cleric was an extremely healery and leadery leader. Meanwhile the primal defender (the warden) was, as you suspect, a tank. Nowhere near as high damage as a fighter that was trying for damage, the warden had the highest hit point total in the game and was good at shrugging off effects.I read it as an artifact of D&D having historically given all the interesting abilities to spellcasters. That in combat the historical way for the fighter to fight has been to either spam basic attacks or to take one other attack type and not routinely mix up their tactics the way a real world skirmish fighter would. Also fighters aren't expected to worry about adrenaline or about pacing themselves because that's not the way it's done in D&D even if it is the way it is in the real world.Thank you! And that's why I quoted this post even if it's still relevant after a ridiculous number of pages. This. And it confuses me that someone would want their allies and teammates to not be special. Impostor Syndrome, with everyone thinking the people around them are more awesome than they are is a thing. But if you want your organisation to be the best you want everyone around you to be good - and there's a reason that when we look at great bands like The Beatles and Queen there is no weak link even if Queen only had one front-man (and four people inducted into the songwriting hall of fame). Even Fleetwood Mac is full of strong links (and Rumours is one of the best feuding albums of all time). I just don't understand why people want their friends and allies to not be special.</blockquote>

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