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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrozenNorth" data-source="post: 7933635" data-attributes="member: 7020832">Just so that I don't always seem negative about P2e, I think its enjoyment is very playstyle dependent (ironically, in this respect it is similar to 4e).  By way of illustration, imagine the 1st round of a fight between a 5th level party consisting of a fighter, cleric, fey sorcerer and wizard and the BBEG plus his two goons.  I apologize in advance for my Pathfinder 1 example, as it is not a system I know super well.Pathfinder 1: Moderately optimized charactersThe cleric has pre-buffed himself and the fighter.  The fighter is a charger build, charges the BBEG and unleashes a full attack on him.  Between the pre-buff, the fighter's magic weapon and optimization, the fighter is unlikely to miss and does massive damage.  The cleric is next, moves up to the BBEG, attacks once.Fey sorcerer, save or suck spell against the BBEG.  Wizard, save or suck spell against the BBEG (or if the BBEG has already been taken out, against the goons).After the 1st round, the fight is essentially over.  If both the fey sorcerer and the wizard miss on their SoS spells (unlikely), the BBEG is likely to die from attack of opportunity from the fighter or cleric if he moves, or his alternative is to attack the two most armored party members.Pathfinder 2: Seal Team 6The cleric has pre-buffed the fighter with Heroism, giving him a +1 to his attack rolls, saving throws and skill checks.  The fighter uses an action to move to the BBEG then attacks once, then uses the Demoralize action. Both actions benefit from the +1. The cleric uses 1 action to move, attacks once, and cast Harm with 1 action.The fey sorcerer moves once, then uses Fairy Dust on the BBEG.  Using 2 actions, this catches all three enemies.  Fairy Dust benefits from the fighter's Demoralize action, so the BBEG must save against the Fairy Dust at a -1.  The wizard moves once, then casts Paralyze on the BBEG.  Paralyze benefits from -1 from frightened and -2 from Fairy Dust.  Wizard's attack has a 20% chance to crit, which, if it does, takes the BBEG out of the fight.The party's tactics are additive.  To be effective, it is not sufficient to be optimized, you also have to coordinate with your party members.  Even if the crit doesn't land, there is a 50% chance the BBEG is paralyzed for the next round, and a 25% chance the BBEG loses 1 of its 3 actions on its turn.Pathfinder 2: Keystone KopsThe cleric has pre-buffed himself with Magic Weapon on his mace, giving him a +1 to attack rolls and increasing his damage by 1 damage die.  The fighter uses an action to move to the BBEG then attacks twice. The cleric uses an action to move, then attacks twice.  The fey sorcerer moves once than entangles the BBEG and his two goons, so that he and the wizard don't have to worry about getting attacked.  The wizard moves once.  He figures that a SoS spell has a 5% chance of a critical success, so it is isn't worth it.  He casts an attack roll spell, and the DM informs him that the BBEG has partial cover from the fighter.All enemies are still up on their turn.The point I'm trying to make is that P2e encourages cooperation between party members to a greater extent than P1e.  If the party is coordinated, small bonuses and penalties can really add up to make your party's squad tactics punch above their weight.  On the other hand, if your party can't or doesn't particularly want to invest in coordination, then it is hard to get excited about situational +1 due to a spell or a feat.  The Heroism spell quoted above?  It's a level 3 divine spell.  Also, to benefit from this additive property of bonuses and penalties, you are required to track both the bonuses and their types.</blockquote>

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