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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arilyn" data-source="post: 7933987" data-attributes="member: 6816042">I dragged out my 4e books to take a closer look at powers, and yes, while there is lots of shifting, pulling and shoving, there are also a lot of very cool flavourful powers. The monk, for example, is way more interesting than the 5e monk. The game is more fantastical, especially when you add in the other player books. We have characters briefly turning into flights of birds or raining down shards from their bows, at 1st level. I was not a fan of 4e, but taking another look, I think there's a lot there to commend it.  Weapon choice is more meaningful. I've always liked the at will, encounter and daily idea, as it is nice and obvious when abilities can be used, and you don't have to rely on short rests. As far as the character sheet being too complicated? You don't need a program. It's just going to be a lot of erasing when you level up. You are going to need power cards, however. No way all those abilities will be easily memorized. But, then again, I use them in 5e too (my own, not going to buy them.) The rules books are not immersive, which is odd because of its more fantastical feel at the table. It's not going to fit in with the typical adventures, we imagine in D&D, but if you want to play a game with mighty heroes, heading for fantastic destinies, who'll have a huge impact on the world, 4e is a good choice. As far as PF2 and 4e? The games don't really play the same. PF2 still feels like PF1. There are some similarities to 4e, but not to the extent that Paizo deliberately chose to copy 4e. I'm not happy with character creation, but playing is smooth and a lot of fun. It feels heavy, which can be an initial turn off, but it doesn't actually play heavy. I think it could use some streamlining, in terms of how skills and feats work, and the monster blocks are still a bit too onerous. We can't know how happy Paizo is with this release. 5e is so far ahead in the market that rating PF by comparing it to 5e won't work. Paizo could be doing the best they ever have financially, and there'd be no way to know. Paizo doesn't need to be nipping at WOTC's heels. It's just not a realistic goal in the current rpg market  which is another topic altogether.</blockquote>

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