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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Presentation vs design... vs philosophy
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 7934302" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Quick question: what would your opinion on a character like the 4e Elementalist be?</p><p></p><p>Assuming you aren't aware of it, it's a very limited spellcaster that can spam one type of elemental magic but doesn't have a lot of complexity.</p><p></p><p>A rough old school translation would be to give it a rogue's ability to wear armour and attack tables and the wizard saving throws. The spells however would be extremely limited. A fire elementalist might get the following:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Resistance to fire. Either half damage or ignores the first ten points of fire from any attack. Inherent ability; fire elementalists don't burn well unless they want to.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Firebolt (at will) from first level. Does fire damage (magical) about equal to that of a specialist archery fighter and scales (so it's keeping up with an archery </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Affect Normal Fires (at will). Because fire elementalist. Can do the same to magical fires at level 7.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Burning Hands or "mini-fireball" on a short recharge, where the mini-fireball is a 10 or 15 foot diameter circle. You can do one of these every fight or so. (The advantage of burning hands is you can use it in melee).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cloak of Fire at 4th or 5th level. This is an at will ability that they can turn on. It provides some protection from incoming arrows - and means that enemies who try to melee them get hurt. As do allies standing next to them. Also makes the elementalist even harder to burn.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At 7th level they pick up the one of burning hands or the mini-fireball they don't have.</li> </ul><p>And at 9th level they get a sacred fire or some other reason to retire in the way of the wizard's tower.</p><p></p><p>Only slightly more complex than a fighter here. And it took a depressingly long time for the 4e version to turn up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And I'm going to point out that this is true - but there are also a lot of characters that aren't the same mechanically - and that mechanics should reflect and enhance character. And the more complex the game the more they should do this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this "simple muggles, complex casters" I consider every bit as much a design mistake as early 4e's "Everyone should be equally complex". If I'm playing certain types of tactician they should have options and thus complexity. And the sorcerer pushing a schtick as far as they can (like the fire elementalist above) is also extremely rewarding to play in a very different way. I know a player who before 4e almost always played a fighter - but found "BURNINATE" far more fun than "Hulk Smash" but it hadn't really been an option before 4e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 7934302, member: 87792"] Quick question: what would your opinion on a character like the 4e Elementalist be? Assuming you aren't aware of it, it's a very limited spellcaster that can spam one type of elemental magic but doesn't have a lot of complexity. A rough old school translation would be to give it a rogue's ability to wear armour and attack tables and the wizard saving throws. The spells however would be extremely limited. A fire elementalist might get the following: [LIST] [*]Resistance to fire. Either half damage or ignores the first ten points of fire from any attack. Inherent ability; fire elementalists don't burn well unless they want to. [*]Firebolt (at will) from first level. Does fire damage (magical) about equal to that of a specialist archery fighter and scales (so it's keeping up with an archery [*]Affect Normal Fires (at will). Because fire elementalist. Can do the same to magical fires at level 7. [*]Burning Hands or "mini-fireball" on a short recharge, where the mini-fireball is a 10 or 15 foot diameter circle. You can do one of these every fight or so. (The advantage of burning hands is you can use it in melee). [*]Cloak of Fire at 4th or 5th level. This is an at will ability that they can turn on. It provides some protection from incoming arrows - and means that enemies who try to melee them get hurt. As do allies standing next to them. Also makes the elementalist even harder to burn. [*]At 7th level they pick up the one of burning hands or the mini-fireball they don't have. [/LIST] And at 9th level they get a sacred fire or some other reason to retire in the way of the wizard's tower. Only slightly more complex than a fighter here. And it took a depressingly long time for the 4e version to turn up. And I'm going to point out that this is true - but there are also a lot of characters that aren't the same mechanically - and that mechanics should reflect and enhance character. And the more complex the game the more they should do this. And this "simple muggles, complex casters" I consider every bit as much a design mistake as early 4e's "Everyone should be equally complex". If I'm playing certain types of tactician they should have options and thus complexity. And the sorcerer pushing a schtick as far as they can (like the fire elementalist above) is also extremely rewarding to play in a very different way. I know a player who before 4e almost always played a fighter - but found "BURNINATE" far more fun than "Hulk Smash" but it hadn't really been an option before 4e. [/QUOTE]
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