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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7934414" data-attributes="member: 6795602">You seem to be taking at face value that design philosophy direct correlates to play experience at the table.  I'm not sure that's a true statement.It also strikes me that no one has said PF2 plays like 4e.  Not even the PF2 detractors.  So I'm thinking your premise here is a bit misguided.Just a general discussion about 4e and PF2 seems to draw out long conversations.  That this one has managed to go on so long without being shutdown is the amazing part. So it's said.  I actually disagree with this.  (So since it's you making this claim then do you care to provide evidence for it - I jest)You see I believe both sides make claims in any discussion and both sides have a burden to provide evidence of their claims.  In fact I'd call it an inquisition when only one side must provide evidence of their claims - which ironically is usually how that quote get's used.We have both offered evidence of our positions.  Neither side has fullproof evidence.  I find your position doesn't really provide a justification for PF2's seemingly complete ignoring of 5e.  We are 560+ posts in.  I don't think anyone is still talking solely about the lead post premise. That's something we agree onWhen a game you love turns it's back on you it's difficult.  Especially one you've invested a lot of time and many and emotions into supporting and defending and making successful.  I understand the sentiment.  It's not a rational response - it's an emotional one.I wouldn't equate the outrage over 4e to gatekeeping.</blockquote>

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