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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Presentation vs design... vs philosophy
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7934933" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Sounds cool!</p><p></p><p>Both 4e-Essentials and 3e-3.5e(-PF1?) remind me of times past where people took bits of 0e, BX, 1e and even early-era 2e and mashed them together into their own game.</p><p></p><p>You can similarly mash 3e-3.5e together and probably lob some PF1 in there as well if you want. From what you say here the same holds true for 4e-Essentials.</p><p></p><p>'Rulings not rules' is a thunderously empowering statement when put in context: it's a direct reversal of 15 years of WotC's 'rules not rulings' philosophy, and a tacit admission by WotC that D&D works better when you don't try to impose M:tG-grade pickiness on it.</p><p></p><p>They've still a ways to go to get to 1e-grade empowerment, to be sure, but it's a fine start.</p><p></p><p>"You're on your own, bucko" is just different words for saying "Do what you want", which is about as empowering as it gets.</p><p></p><p>Ah - it seems you're conflating 'empowerment' with 'support', and they're not the same thing. 4e gives one, 5e gives the other, neither gives both.</p><p></p><p>Empowerment doesn't mean 'Here's a really well-made road, you're free to drive along it provided you follow all these many and various rules and regulations which will be enforced by those people in the black and white cars over there', because here the real power rests with the cops in the black-and-whites and not you at all. The only power you have is to choose whether to drive along that road, in what type of vehicle, and in which direction; but you've got lots of support in doing so.</p><p></p><p>Contrast that with 'Here's a wide open prairie with all the holes filled in, you're free to drive wherever and however you want as long as you don't hit anyone else, but otherwise you're on your own and you have to sort out for yourself how you interact with other drivers out there.' Now you're completely empowered but have virtually no support.</p><p></p><p>To carry that analogy one step further: in the road model you don't have to worry about where you're going; just stay on the road and it'll take care of the navigation to get you where you're going. But in the open prairie model the greater power also brings greater responsibility: you're now responsible for figuring out where you're going and the navigation required to get there.</p><p></p><p>The market share of people who like cars is - or could be - covered by Ford but that doesn't stop a thousand other companies from also building cars, many of which are very similar (as in, nigh-identical other than superficial looks) to the ones Ford makes.</p><p></p><p>Why would they buy a Honda or a VW or a Dodge that's just like the Ford they could buy instead?</p><p></p><p>It did have the small advantage of having a runway laid down for it by 3e-3.5e, of which it was a more direct successor than 4e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7934933, member: 29398"] Sounds cool! Both 4e-Essentials and 3e-3.5e(-PF1?) remind me of times past where people took bits of 0e, BX, 1e and even early-era 2e and mashed them together into their own game. You can similarly mash 3e-3.5e together and probably lob some PF1 in there as well if you want. From what you say here the same holds true for 4e-Essentials. 'Rulings not rules' is a thunderously empowering statement when put in context: it's a direct reversal of 15 years of WotC's 'rules not rulings' philosophy, and a tacit admission by WotC that D&D works better when you don't try to impose M:tG-grade pickiness on it. They've still a ways to go to get to 1e-grade empowerment, to be sure, but it's a fine start. "You're on your own, bucko" is just different words for saying "Do what you want", which is about as empowering as it gets. Ah - it seems you're conflating 'empowerment' with 'support', and they're not the same thing. 4e gives one, 5e gives the other, neither gives both. Empowerment doesn't mean 'Here's a really well-made road, you're free to drive along it provided you follow all these many and various rules and regulations which will be enforced by those people in the black and white cars over there', because here the real power rests with the cops in the black-and-whites and not you at all. The only power you have is to choose whether to drive along that road, in what type of vehicle, and in which direction; but you've got lots of support in doing so. Contrast that with 'Here's a wide open prairie with all the holes filled in, you're free to drive wherever and however you want as long as you don't hit anyone else, but otherwise you're on your own and you have to sort out for yourself how you interact with other drivers out there.' Now you're completely empowered but have virtually no support. To carry that analogy one step further: in the road model you don't have to worry about where you're going; just stay on the road and it'll take care of the navigation to get you where you're going. But in the open prairie model the greater power also brings greater responsibility: you're now responsible for figuring out where you're going and the navigation required to get there. The market share of people who like cars is - or could be - covered by Ford but that doesn't stop a thousand other companies from also building cars, many of which are very similar (as in, nigh-identical other than superficial looks) to the ones Ford makes. Why would they buy a Honda or a VW or a Dodge that's just like the Ford they could buy instead? It did have the small advantage of having a runway laid down for it by 3e-3.5e, of which it was a more direct successor than 4e. [/QUOTE]
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