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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7935596" data-attributes="member: 42582">[USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER] has already pointed out how Tide of Iron (damage + push via shield bash) and (say) Cleave - two fighter at wills - are not "samey".Here are two 3rd level paladin attacks (from the PHB):Arcing Smite Encounter * Divine, Weapon Standard Action, Melee weapon Targets: One or two creatures Attack: Strength vs. AC, one attack per target Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is marked until the end of your next turn. Staggering Smite Encounter * Divine,Weapon Standard Action, Melee weapon Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. AC Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you push the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier.One lets you attack two creatures and "lock" them via marking. The other allows an attack vs one creature for a larger than normal amount of damage and pushing them away. How are these samey? (And if they are samey, then what are 5e Battle Master manoeuvres?)Here are three 6th level rogue abilities (from the PHB): Ignoble Escape Encounter * Martial Move Action, Personal Prerequisite: You must be trained in Acrobatics. Effect: If you are marked, end that condition. You can shift a number of squares equal to your speed. Mob Mentality Encounter * Martial Standard Action, Close burst 10 Prerequisite: You must be trained in Intimidate. Targets: You and each ally in burst Effect: The targets gain a +2 power bonus to Charisma based skill and ability checks until the end of your next turn. Nimble Climb At-Will * Martial Move Action, Personal Prerequisite: You must be trained in Athletics. Effect: Make an Athletics check to climb a surface. You can move at your full speed during this climb.We have an in-combat move/evasion ability, a group CHA buff and a boost to climb speed. Samey? How? The last one, at least, is in 5e as a rogue ability. Are 5e rogues samey?Here are two 7th level ranger attacks (from the PHB):Claws of the Griffom Encounter * Martial, Weapon Standard Action, Melee weapon Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons. Target: One or two creatures Attack: Strength vs. AC (main weapon and off-hand weapon), two attacks Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage (main weapon) and 1[W] + Strength modifier damage (off-hand weapon). Sweeping Whirlwind Encounter * Martial,Weapon Standard Action, Close burst 1 Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons. Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Strength vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you push the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier and it is knocked prone.One is a double attack ability that lets you stack all the damage on one target if you wish. The other is a strong martial AoE (normal damage but pushed away and knocked down). Completely different uses.A final comment: when I wrote this post I wrote down the 3 categories (paladin 3rd level, rogue 6th level, ranger 7th level) before going to the PHB to see what was there. I didn't go for stuff I already knew like (say) the 6th level wizard utilities, or the 13th level paladin options (compare Radiant Charge to Entangling Smite).This claim about powers being samey doesn't stand up under the lightest scrutiny.EDIT because I saw this:How are the class examples I just posted samey?And what is the alleged contrast here with 5e? All 5e classes choose spells from the same underlying list. All 5e classes choose "fighting styles" from the same underlying list.The only difference in 5e that I see is that the structure of the resource suites varies across classes. At least when I play RPGs, the resource recovery rules are not what I look to to define a character and make him/her unique.</blockquote>

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