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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Presentation vs design... vs philosophy
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7949029" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Although I already laid out my case for this twice-over (but my case was in terms of model physics and attendant narrative), I want to go back to this again for a moment.</p><p></p><p>The problem I have with saying “but stories showed mundane, martial characters slaying beasts” is this:</p><p></p><p>1) Those stories do this by way of unilateral authorial control over the fiction. The author does not need to mediate disputes over “what happens” when mundane, martial characters meet Ancient Red Dragons in mortal, melee combat. They simply write their vision.</p><p></p><p>2) TTRPG mechanics don’t remotely look anything like the above. </p><p></p><p>a) They don’t have unilateral vision by the PC playing the Fighter vs the Ancient Red Dragon. </p><p></p><p>b) They do have the requirement to pass the litmus test of a GM when they make the action declaration.</p><p></p><p>c) They do have the requirement to have their vision mediated through a dispute process of action resolution mechanics that can be either punitive in terms of 1st order interaction (one instance of action resolution being difficult to accomplish and extreme in fallout) or, more likely historically, the interaction of multiple instances of action resolution and their interactions and downstream effects.</p><p></p><p></p><p>TLDR - The existence of an author’s unilateral vision tells us nothing about what story one should expect to unfold at a classic D&D table when Epic Tier Martial Hero meets Ancient Red Dragon in mortal, melee combat. Doesn’t tell us about the outcome or the process (what permissible action declarations and how action resolution should expect to mathematically resolve).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7949029, member: 6696971"] Although I already laid out my case for this twice-over (but my case was in terms of model physics and attendant narrative), I want to go back to this again for a moment. The problem I have with saying “but stories showed mundane, martial characters slaying beasts” is this: 1) Those stories do this by way of unilateral authorial control over the fiction. The author does not need to mediate disputes over “what happens” when mundane, martial characters meet Ancient Red Dragons in mortal, melee combat. They simply write their vision. 2) TTRPG mechanics don’t remotely look anything like the above. a) They don’t have unilateral vision by the PC playing the Fighter vs the Ancient Red Dragon. b) They do have the requirement to pass the litmus test of a GM when they make the action declaration. c) They do have the requirement to have their vision mediated through a dispute process of action resolution mechanics that can be either punitive in terms of 1st order interaction (one instance of action resolution being difficult to accomplish and extreme in fallout) or, more likely historically, the interaction of multiple instances of action resolution and their interactions and downstream effects. TLDR - The existence of an author’s unilateral vision tells us nothing about what story one should expect to unfold at a classic D&D table when Epic Tier Martial Hero meets Ancient Red Dragon in mortal, melee combat. Doesn’t tell us about the outcome or the process (what permissible action declarations and how action resolution should expect to mathematically resolve). [/QUOTE]
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