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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 7950086" data-attributes="member: 87792">They can be made or lost by that one time in 50 - but that doesn't mean that's a significant difference in character choices.First, no that's not the difference. The big difference is that the old school saves were effects based; you had a better chance on the spell save than the death save whereas in 3.X you throw glitterdust and hold person at the brutes and blindness or stinking cloud at the casters.Second as a DM or a player why would I want that? As a player not knowing how tough I am blinds me and takes away information I should have making me less connected to the world. And as a DM it's an extra piece of busywork for me.I'd prefer a simple calculation to a lookup table any day of the week where the output is the same. Especially on something that's supposed to be fast.4e is either worse or better than 3e that way depending on your perspective. I prefer the 3.X and 4e approach because it imposes some quality control on me - and because it allows me to make far reaching changes when I want to. But there is a much higher barrier to effectiveness.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 7950086, member: 87792"] They can be made or lost by that one time in 50 - but that doesn't mean that's a significant difference in character choices. First, no that's not the difference. The big difference is that the old school saves were effects based; you had a better chance on the spell save than the death save whereas in 3.X you throw glitterdust and hold person at the brutes and blindness or stinking cloud at the casters. Second as a DM or a player [I]why would I want that?[/I] As a player not knowing how tough I am blinds me and takes away information I should have making me less connected to the world. And as a DM it's an extra piece of busywork for me. I'd prefer a simple calculation to a lookup table any day of the week where the output is the same. Especially on something that's supposed to be fast. 4e is either worse or better than 3e that way depending on your perspective. I prefer the 3.X and 4e approach because it imposes some quality control on me - and because it allows me to make far reaching changes when I want to. But there is a much higher barrier to effectiveness. [/QUOTE]

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