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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7490919" data-attributes="member: 6919838">RE the bold - we have an example of agreement and simultaneous disagreement. It seems that so very often &quot;lasting or permanent impact&quot; is locked into &quot;negative impact&quot; or &quot;punishment&quot;.First, of course, the life-death-after-cycle should be a setting shaping thing.Second, for PC life-death-after-cycle it can be one that has permanent and meaningful impact without negatives at all, In my last 3.5 game every PC death was followed by an after-life between scene where very personal to the character events played out &quot;on the other side&quot; and the issue of &quot;come back or not&quot; was explored and every single time the interactions and scenes played a significant part of a change to the character often including new info that could help or new obligations or debts or missions, etc etc etc. No two were the same except for profoundly changing the character in some non-mechanical way.Additionally, there were sects of a given goddess that believes the &quot;returned&quot; were holy prophets to be cherished and worshiped and all that (one sect) or abominations and affronts to the goddess who should be killed again and painfully (other sect.)Additionally, there was a feat -tree or mini-prestige class that unlocked when you hit &quot;dead but got better&quot; that let you character choose to develop and expand that &quot;walked on both sides&quot; nature with a variety of medium/necromantic type effects including things like speak with dead rituals or able to spot or hide from other &quot;both siders&quot; and so on and so on.led to every single case of life-death-pc-cycle being very much meaningful and impactful and permanently changing the character - just not in a punishment or penalized sort of way. i think the idea that seems so ingrained of needing to make the dead and back a penalized feature derives from the original wargamish &quot;fight is competition&quot;, &quot;losing fight means dead - and vice versa&quot; and the resulting &quot;death&quot; is &quot;failure&quot; leads you to punish failure.I see it as more akin to &quot;death is an opportunity&quot; in a fantasy world where dead and back is a thing.YGMV YFMV YMMV</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7490919, member: 6919838"] RE the bold - we have an example of agreement and simultaneous disagreement. It seems that so very often "lasting or permanent impact" is locked into "negative impact" or "punishment". First, of course, the life-death-after-cycle should be a setting shaping thing. Second, for PC life-death-after-cycle it can be one that has permanent and meaningful impact without negatives at all, In my last 3.5 game every PC death was followed by an after-life between scene where very personal to the character events played out "on the other side" and the issue of "come back or not" was explored and every single time the interactions and scenes played a significant part of a change to the character often including new info that could help or new obligations or debts or missions, etc etc etc. No two were the same except for profoundly changing the character in some non-mechanical way. Additionally, there were sects of a given goddess that believes the "returned" were holy prophets to be cherished and worshiped and all that (one sect) or abominations and affronts to the goddess who should be killed again and painfully (other sect.) Additionally, there was a feat -tree or mini-prestige class that unlocked when you hit "dead but got better" that let you character choose to develop and expand that "walked on both sides" nature with a variety of medium/necromantic type effects including things like speak with dead rituals or able to spot or hide from other "both siders" and so on and so on. led to every single case of life-death-pc-cycle being very much meaningful and impactful and permanently changing the character - just not in a punishment or penalized sort of way. i think the idea that seems so ingrained of needing to make the dead and back a penalized feature derives from the original wargamish "fight is competition", "losing fight means dead - and vice versa" and the resulting "death" is "failure" leads you to punish failure. I see it as more akin to "death is an opportunity" in a fantasy world where dead and back is a thing. YGMV YFMV YMMV [/QUOTE]

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