Prestidigitation

[0-hr]

What can end a Prestidigitation spell? In a campaign I'm in a player used it to perform some minor telekinesis. A little while later he cleaned his clothes and did some more telekinesis (scooping up various object). A few minutes and a little plane travel later and he used the spell to move some bottles through the air. After a bloody fight, and a brief bout of unconsiousness (massive non-lethal damage) he used it again to scoop various bits of treasure off the floor.

This is all well and good except that it was the same spell! He cast it once and figures it lasts an hour - during which he can change targets and effects however he wants. I can't see anything that proves otherwise but if its true, then that's the most powerful 2nd level spell I've ever seen!

Prestidigitation
Universal

Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0

Components: V, S

Casting Time: 1 standard action

Range: 10 ft.
Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: 1 hour
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

 

[Vorput]

What can end a Prestidigitation spell? In a campaign I'm in a player used it to perform some minor telekinesis. A little while later he cleaned his clothes and did some more telekinesis (scooping up various object). A few minutes and a little plane travel later and he used the spell to move some bottles through the air. After a bloody fight, and a brief bout of unconsiousness (massive non-lethal damage) he used it again to scoop various bits of treasure off the floor.

This is all well and good except that it was the same spell! He cast it once and figures it lasts an hour - during which he can change targets and effects however he wants. I can't see anything that proves otherwise but if its true, then that's the most powerful 2nd level spell I've ever seen!

It's a 0 level spell, not 2nd.

And who cares? Any mage who can plane hop should damn well be able to lift small unattended objects with his mind. The spell has no mechanical benefits- it doesn't even have that many role-playing benefits... If a player really wanted to, I'd let prestidigitation be a 1st level spell that lasted 24 hours. I just don't understand how being able to pick things up is that game-breaking- especially since the object has to be 10 ft away, within range for him just to reach down with his hand and pick up.

Just my two copper.

 

[prospero63]

1) I would think the TK stuff would violate the "not duplicate other spell effects" aspect.

Personally, for those kind of "neato" tricks, I tend to just let the casters do it at no spell cost, ala the old Ars Magica idea of spontaneous casting under the idea of "flavor text". But that's my own house rule.

 

[UltimaGabe]

1) I would think the TK stuff would violate the "not duplicate other spell effects" aspect.

Well, telekinesis is one of the options listed in the spell description.

Anyway, I agree entirely with Vorpus. It's a fun and useful spell- but by no means is it powerful. It doesn't let your character do anything they couldn't do otherwise- it just gives you a flavor description for your actions. He could easily say, "I'm gonna pick up all of those coins by hand", but instead he's using a 0-level spell (a limited resource) to say, "I'm gonna pick up all of those coins from 10 feet away." Sure, he can clean up his clothes, but how is that going to impact anything? Is there an impromptu noble's banquet in the sewers, and you can only be let in if you aren't dirty? If so, that alone should harbor far more suspicion than a casting of Prestidigitation.

It's a roleplaying spell. It's useful, not powerful. It doesn't add to any rolls (unless you let it, as some DMs allow it to grant a +2 on certain skill checks), it doesn't do any damage, it's just a fun little flavor-full spell. Not powerful at all. I played a Barbarian in a group full of spellcasters, and I felt out of the loop most of the time because the other characters were constantly doing cool character-oriented things with their spells, and all I had was a sword to hit stuff with. I paid the money for an at-will item of Prestidigitation, and BAM! Finally, I could do fun stuff along with everyone else! Again, it never added to any of my rolls, skills, damage, or otherwise, it just gave me a fun creative outlet for my character that, without it, would have left me sitting staring at my character sheet all day.

 

[0-hr]

The aforementioned bottles were full of explosive liquid that went off when dropped. The items on the floor were magical gear dropped by NPCs nearby. Picking it up by hand would have been blatantly obvious but stuff sliding slowly across the floor of its own accord much less so. He gathered puddles of blood into floating globules to feed a minotaur. Of the four uses I've seen thus far, not one was something that could have been done without the spell.


The larger question is about what can end the duration of a spell, and can this spell switch targets and effects at will? Opinions are great an all, but I'm already chock full of those. I'm more interested in rules or official word.

 

[prospero63]

The aforementioned bottles were full of explosive liquid that went off when dropped. The items on the floor were magical gear dropped by NPCs nearby. Picking it up by hand would have been blatantly obvious but stuff sliding slowly across the floor of its own accord much less so. He gathered puddles of blood into floating globules to feed a minotaur. Of the four uses I've seen thus far, not one was something that could have been done without the spell.


The larger question is about what can end the duration of a spell, and can this spell switch targets and effects at will? Opinions are great an all, but I'm already chock full of those. I'm more interested in rules or official word.

With the adjustment for the minor TK that was pointed out by UltimaGabe then, here are my thoughts:

1) For use to attack, I wouldn't have allowed it. For use outside of a combat round, cool.
2) No way. Magic gear falls into that special "need something more powerful than unseen servant at the very least" category for me.
3) Seems fine enough

 

[prospero63]

The larger question is about what can end the duration of a spell, and can this spell switch targets and effects at will? Opinions are great an all, but I'm already chock full of those. I'm more interested in rules or official word.

1) It doesn't appear dismissable. I would allow the non-permanent effects (cleaning, etc.) to be instantly dispelled, automatic success. Same would go for a dispel in the middle of use. I.e your example of the blood, it just hit the ground.
2) I don't see why it couldn't switch targets and effects, though I would also be fine with an interpretation that each casting is for a target or effect.

With regards to RAW

1) I think 1 above holds up
2) I see nothing that would prevent switching targets or effects in RAW.

 

[Vorput]

I think the spell description is pretty clear on this one:

Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour.

Not even a single effect (i.e. just moving stuff), but multiple effects. So for the course of an hour, a player can walk around a house cleaning things, flavoring food, moving candlesticks, etc.

Now what may need to be house-ruled is what kind of actions are required to do the above things. I'd go with
SRD Quote

Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Now, if you want to make the spell less useful, you could go with that entire section:

The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end.

You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you cease concentrating.

In which case, you couldn't cast any other spells, or suffer anything that would break your concentration without losing your casting of prestidigitation. I don't think this was the intent when the spell was created, but it's vague enough that this would be a fair ruling if you feel the spell is disrupting your game.

yet another two copper

 

[Mistwell]

It's not a concentration spell. Spells that require concentration say so somewhere in the spell. It has a duration fixed to 1 hour. That's it.

And yes, it can do multiple things. And yes, you can switch targets as often as you like.

 

[Dross]

It's not a concentration spell. Spells that require concentration say so somewhere in the spell. It has a duration fixed to 1 hour. That's it.

And yes, it can do multiple things. And yes, you can switch targets as often as you like.

I agree with Mistwell about not needing to concentrate to maintain the spell, but feel that changing the effect (say from cleaning to TK) would require a standard action.

I am not aware of anything in the rules that spells stop when the caster is unco unless thay are concentration based.

Since I wouldn't make a distinct based on level in this case: would these dismissable spells: See Invisibility, Seeming, Shadow Walk, Shapechange
and these non-dismissable spells: Sending, Protection From Arrows
end if the caster was unconscious?