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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 1851879" data-attributes="member: 1465">My knowledge of <5lv PrCl is mostly confined to FR, and probably that early experience screw up my opinion so much that now I have those prejudices  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/nervous.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":heh:" title="Nervous Laugh    :heh:" data-shortname=":heh:" /> Except those Archmage & Hierophant, almost all the other 5-lv PrCls in FRCS and MoF were badly written IMHO... now checking through the book for a couple of examples (paraphrasing the "forbidden text"):Arcane Devoteeconcept: a wizard or sorcerer affiliated to a church, providing magic firepower, divination and item creationfeatures: some longer-range spells, some ST bonus or magic protection, 1 item creation feat, DC alignment-based bonus There's absolutely no need to take this PrCl to actually cover the concept! And the implementation doesn't even follow it really...Divine Discipleconcept: intermediary between worshippers/priests and divine beingsfeatures: bonus domain, telepathy with outsiders, ST bonuses, imbue spells ability, becomes outsider at the endWhat does it have to do with being and "intermediary"?Guild Thiefconcept: a rogue belonging to organized group controlling local crime activityfeatures: sneak attack, uncanny dodge, bonus feats (combat or skill-related), bonus to leadership score, minor skill bonusesWhat is the actual difference with just staying a normal rogue?Harper Scoutorganization: devoted to fight evil, preserve knowledge, protect nature without harming civilizationconcept: espionage and gathering infospecial: it is said that most harper scouts are bardsfeatures: minor arcane spellcasting, one skill focus, bonuses to ST, 2 favored enemies (based on organization), bardic knowledgeNo doubt most harper scouts are bards... the PrCl basically IS a bard with favored enemy instead of bardic music, and much more limited spellcasting.These are IMHO all example of bad PrCl design. You don't need any of these, unless you are specifically looking for some character min-maxing. Everything can be done within core classes if you just allow a minor variant or with the right feat; to me it seems that all these PrCl's special abilities should be rather made into feats (when they aren't already) because there is little or no real progression/consequence in them and as such the mechanic of a class is the wrong way to give those features, since a class is exactly a progression.</blockquote>

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