Prestige classes & saves

[Atherlos]

Joining numerous prestige classes gives a huge boost to base saves. Do you give players the full benefit or reduce it? Just curious.

-- Atherlos

 

[Thanee]

I generally discourage joining a plethora of classes (except in some rare special cases).
In my PbP I have set a maximum number of classes of three.

But I give characters the full benefit of it, yes.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Humanophile]

As a house rule, I have the characters add up all their levels in classes that give a good save, all their levels in classes that give a poor save, and use just those two values to get their save scores. I do something very similar for the three BAB columns. I'd have no problem letting players use fractional bonuses if they really wanted to, but most of them seem too math-phobic for the possible +1 to be worth it. (I'd also allow them to use their 20 best levels to figure out BAB/saves if they were epic multi-classed, but that's never come up.) I'm partial to this exactly because it prevents people going crazy stacking +2's, while everything else suffers somewhat as a result.

 

[Sun Wukong]

I give them the full benefit. It is a double-edged sword.

For example, a 1st-level barbarian takes a level of fighter. His Fort is immediately boosted from +2 to +4, but his Ref and Will shall remain +0 until he reaches 4th level (total), and perhaps not even then if he keeps the two classes equal.

 

[Gez]

I use fractionnal BAB and save progression. Save progressions are either 1/3 level +0 or 1/2 level +2 (or, for intermediary saves, 2/5 level +1, but those are not normally found in D&D).

The fractionnal part stack, but the bonus part doesn't. So, a fighter/barbarian 5/5 would have the same saves as a Fighter 10, since a fighter and a barbarian's saves are the same. 10/2 +2 in Fort, or +7, and 10/3 +0 in Ref and Will, or +3.

A fighter/cleric/bard 5/5/5 would have a +2 bonus in all saves (Fort from Fighter and Cleric, Ref from Bard, Will from Cleric and Bard), and overall scores of:
Fort: 2+ 1/2 x5 (Fighter) + 1/2 x5 (Cleric) + 1/3 x5 (Bard) = 8.6666667 (rounded down to +8).
Ref: 2+ 1/3 x5 + 1/3 x5 + 1/2 x5 = 7.833333333 (rounded down to +7).
Will: 2+ 1/3 x5 +1/2 x5 + 1/2 x5 = 8.6666667 (rounded down to +8).

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I give them the full benefit. It is a double-edged sword.

That is correct. My al Qadim warmage's Reflex save will probably go up by 1 in the next six levels, when his Fort and Will saves both go up by 5, due to his scheduled combination of prestige classes (another level of Spellblade, and then all five levels of War Wizard of Cormyr, er, Huzuz).

The only class with saves that're likely not hurt by PrCing is the monk, as the dedicated monk PrCs all have all good saves.

Brad

 

[Atherlos]

I think the benefit is much larger then the 'penalty' as far as saves go. Joining the right classes and PrCs can give fort 20 ref 5-6 will 20 (base saves) or so with at least 19 BAB. Consequences of failing ref saves are generally much more benign than those that come from failed fort or will saves.

-- Atherlos

 

[Thanee]

Well, saves ain't everything.

And you would need quite a few classes, including the prerequisites to enter them, to achieve that. I doubt, that this would work out well in practice.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Atherlos]

How about ranger 3/cleric 4/deepwarden 2/Blacksmith 3/Hammer of Moradin 3/Pious Templar 4/Dwarven Defender 1? As far as I recall: base saves fort 24-ref 7-will 18, BAB 19, AC is good, you can track, create your own stuff, throw hammers from defensive stance, and damage potential is crazy.

I suppose I could sub one blacksmith level for a fighter (the char must be a dwarf so no multiclassing issues) for another feat and fort +2, ref/will -1. Considering previous posts I guess you wouldn't allow this Thanee, but there is potential here.

--Atherlos

 

[Thanee]

Right. This is not a character, which would or should be played in practice.

It's not even really a character, it's just a bunch of stats and classes.
Maybe a fun exercise, but nothing for a roleplaying game.

But apart from that... while the saves certainly are good, as I said, they are not everything.

A "simple" Cleric 10/RandomClericPrC 10 also has a +14 base save in Fort and Will and +6 in Ref, +15 BAB, plus 9th level spells, where there are quite a few, which can add to saves and BAB as well.

So, you got some weak spells and special abilities and a few more points in saves and BAB; and don't forget how badly mangled your choice of feats and skills must look after going through all those prestige classes (dunno what Deepwarden/Blacksmith is or where it is from, but True Believer, Dodge, Endurance, Toughness alone are a tough price to pay, and I'm sure that list isn't complete yet).

Compare that to the power 9th level spells give you.
I know what I find more impressive.

Bye
Thanee