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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Prestige Classes vs. Core Classes
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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 891779" data-attributes="member: 3051"><p><strong>Re: Re: Re: Prestige Classes vs. Core Classes</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Opportunity Cost": the cost of a choice in terms of foregone alternatives. That is, by multiclassing or joining a Prestige Class, you'll never gain the high-level abilities many classes give, unless the PrC explicitly offers the same abilities. Very few PrCs give ALL of the abilities of the class you left, and those that do either add big drawbacks or are just plain broken. So, in general, you gravitate to the PrC that gives up the things you didn't want anyway but keeps the ones you do.</p><p></p><p>The big flying Smurf explained the level 20 cap. In 3E the XP amounts and level caps are based on character level (sum of all class levels). One note: in the chapter on classes in the PHB, everywhere you see "level" refers to "class level", since the class level vs. character level distinction isn't introduced until later in the book. So, Cleric domain powers depend on Cleric level, Wizard familiar abilities... well, they've been errata'd a few times, I don't know the latest ruling there.</p><p></p><p>And, things get really... different... after level 20. You can't just say "Oh, I went Ranger 1/Cleric 19, I gained another level, so I'll get that last Cleric level now." Epic levels don't really give the full class level benefits, instead giving you access to things like Epic Feats. Giving up levels in your main class isn't something to take lightly. It's not always a bad idea, of course, but it's not the automatic thing it was in 2E. Ever try playing a standard single-classed Fighter in a high-level campaign when two other people in the group are Avariel Fighter/Cleric/Mage with Psionics? (and yes, they rolled the 1% chance)</p><p></p><p>Also, advancing "back and forth" doesn't work for many classes. Besides the outright ban Monks and Paladins have to put up with (House Rule: these classes can still freely multiclass with the racial Favored Class), there are some classes where an even split just isn't helpful. Ranger is the obvious example here. A Fighter 4/Ranger 4 is seriously inferior to a Fighter 7/Ranger 1.</p><p></p><p>Other than the "1 or 2 levels in every class we can find that gives +1 BAB per level" crowd, most multiclassing is only two levels, is a "lopsided" multiclass (mostly one caster-type class with just a splash of a melee class or vice versa).</p><p></p><p>Anyway, Kae Yoss did a great class-by-class breakdown, although I'll add one point:</p><p>Depending on how many splatbooks you use, Fighters can either give up a lot, or give up nothing to join a PrC.</p><p>I mean, take a standard, level 20 Human Fighter. He gets 19 Feats (1 level 1, 1 at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 1 bonus for Human, and 11 Fighter Bonus Feats). NINETEEN FEATS. As opposed to the 7 practically everyone else gets.</p><p>Now, go through the PHB and find nineteen feats that Fighters would find useful. Even if we assume your Fighter still has the stats for it, you run out of good stuff to take by level 10. So, sacrificing those last 5 bonus feats isn't really much of a drawback. (Although, to balance it, Fighters suck when it comes to meeting skill prerequisites, so unless they multiclass their pool of PrCs is limited.)</p><p>Now, add the splatbooks, and you siddenly have a lot of neat Feats to choose from. Sword and Fist will help a ton. Heck, just take the three +2 save feats, then their Greater versions, then Luck of Heroes, there go seven Feats right there if you want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 891779, member: 3051"] [b]Re: Re: Re: Prestige Classes vs. Core Classes[/b] "Opportunity Cost": the cost of a choice in terms of foregone alternatives. That is, by multiclassing or joining a Prestige Class, you'll never gain the high-level abilities many classes give, unless the PrC explicitly offers the same abilities. Very few PrCs give ALL of the abilities of the class you left, and those that do either add big drawbacks or are just plain broken. So, in general, you gravitate to the PrC that gives up the things you didn't want anyway but keeps the ones you do. The big flying Smurf explained the level 20 cap. In 3E the XP amounts and level caps are based on character level (sum of all class levels). One note: in the chapter on classes in the PHB, everywhere you see "level" refers to "class level", since the class level vs. character level distinction isn't introduced until later in the book. So, Cleric domain powers depend on Cleric level, Wizard familiar abilities... well, they've been errata'd a few times, I don't know the latest ruling there. And, things get really... different... after level 20. You can't just say "Oh, I went Ranger 1/Cleric 19, I gained another level, so I'll get that last Cleric level now." Epic levels don't really give the full class level benefits, instead giving you access to things like Epic Feats. Giving up levels in your main class isn't something to take lightly. It's not always a bad idea, of course, but it's not the automatic thing it was in 2E. Ever try playing a standard single-classed Fighter in a high-level campaign when two other people in the group are Avariel Fighter/Cleric/Mage with Psionics? (and yes, they rolled the 1% chance) Also, advancing "back and forth" doesn't work for many classes. Besides the outright ban Monks and Paladins have to put up with (House Rule: these classes can still freely multiclass with the racial Favored Class), there are some classes where an even split just isn't helpful. Ranger is the obvious example here. A Fighter 4/Ranger 4 is seriously inferior to a Fighter 7/Ranger 1. Other than the "1 or 2 levels in every class we can find that gives +1 BAB per level" crowd, most multiclassing is only two levels, is a "lopsided" multiclass (mostly one caster-type class with just a splash of a melee class or vice versa). Anyway, Kae Yoss did a great class-by-class breakdown, although I'll add one point: Depending on how many splatbooks you use, Fighters can either give up a lot, or give up nothing to join a PrC. I mean, take a standard, level 20 Human Fighter. He gets 19 Feats (1 level 1, 1 at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 1 bonus for Human, and 11 Fighter Bonus Feats). NINETEEN FEATS. As opposed to the 7 practically everyone else gets. Now, go through the PHB and find nineteen feats that Fighters would find useful. Even if we assume your Fighter still has the stats for it, you run out of good stuff to take by level 10. So, sacrificing those last 5 bonus feats isn't really much of a drawback. (Although, to balance it, Fighters suck when it comes to meeting skill prerequisites, so unless they multiclass their pool of PrCs is limited.) Now, add the splatbooks, and you siddenly have a lot of neat Feats to choose from. Sword and Fist will help a ton. Heck, just take the three +2 save feats, then their Greater versions, then Luck of Heroes, there go seven Feats right there if you want. [/QUOTE]
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