Prestige Classes - which are broken?

[TheShoveller]

I don't use prestige classes much in my games, but I do keep hearing people saying there are problems with this one and that one. I particularly hear about the Halfling Outrider from Sword and Fist.

So, in your opinions, which are broken and why?

 

[Derulbaskul]

Sword & Fist contains numerous errors, so much so that this skinny little book has TWO lots of errata rather than the customary one. Before you consider the outrider check the errata for the corrections (including actually having a BAB).

My first test for brokeness is flavour: does the prestige class suit the campaign world and its organisations/races etc.... If it doesn't it doesn't get a look in.

As for the next test, rules, aiyohhh... there are over 1,000 published prestige classes and there is not enough time to properly catalogue the brokeness or otherwise of same.

Cheers
D

 

[blargney]

I don't mean to belittle anyone, but here's my personal heresy: I think the outlook of 'brokenness' is largely an expression of lack of self-confidence on the part of the DM.

The DM is the ONLY person who can determine the relative power of anything in the game environment. If something is 'broken', it just means that it is capable of influencing the world in a way that the DM hasn't yet found a way to counteract.

There aren't many 'broken' problems that can't be fixed with the judicious application of permanent ability-draining monsters. A PC has too much Charisma, and his spells are irresistable? OOPS, he just drank a poison that makes him lose 2 points permanently. (Or at least until he successfully completes a very entertaining quest...)

Every tactic has a weakness! Take the time to find it. Exploit it mercilessly until the opponent finds a weakness in YOUR tactic. Repeat as necessary. Have fun!

-blarg

 

[Pax]

Besides which, "brokenness" is situational AND relative. For example, the [3.0] Archmage is often touted a paragon of borkenness, because of it's spell power. But if you don't TAKE all three Spellpower enhancements (IOW, if you choose OTHER things), it's not overpowered to NEARLY the same degree.

Some PrCs are broken for being too weak, or else too bland (IMO most of the S&S PrCs fall into one or the other of those two categories).

A few look VERY powerful on the surface ... but when played, aren't nearly as awe-inspiring. Or maybe they are. Some of them are heavily reliant on GM input to make-or-break them -- input in the form of how encounters play out, what the foes typically are, and so on.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Besides which, "brokenness" is situational AND relative. For example, the [3.0] Archmage is often touted a paragon of borkenness, because of it's spell power. But if you don't TAKE all three Spellpower enhancements (IOW, if you choose OTHER things), it's not overpowered to NEARLY the same degree.

Some PrCs are broken for being too weak, or else too bland (IMO most of the S&S PrCs fall into one or the other of those two categories).

A few look VERY powerful on the surface ... but when played, aren't nearly as awe-inspiring. Or maybe they are. Some of them are heavily reliant on GM input to make-or-break them -- input in the form of how encounters play out, what the foes typically are, and so on.

The archmage wasn't broken ... it was the Spell Power. Some prestige classes use tactics that have no weaknesses.

 

[Dr_Karl_R_Kroenen]

Prestige Classes

I have just run a game where the Elemental Archon became awkwardly powerful having converted the fire mephits to the 3.5 rules. 3 flying souts that can hold there own in combat with dam resist and very useful abilites. If the mephits die they come back the next day so on and so forth. All this at character level 6. Hmmm. Any one else having trouble with Elemental Archons?

 

[Pax]

The archmage wasn't broken ... it was the Spell Power. Some prestige classes use tactics that have no weaknesses.

Name any two from WOTC sources, along with their supposedly has-no-weakness tactics. I can porobably still poke a hole in the tactic, "no weakness" or otherwise.

Stuff from outside of WOTC is a whole different case. And of course, moving across Revision boundaries, some PrCs will need to be adjusted -- both down AND up -- in order to maintain balance.

As far as that Archon ... where is that from? It doesn't sound like a WOTC-published PrC to me. THREE mephits, with the FIRST level of the PrC? Smells of third-party to me, sorry ...

 

[hong]

Besides which, "brokenness" is situational AND relative. For example, the [3.0] Archmage is often touted a paragon of borkenness, because of it's spell power. But if you don't TAKE all three Spellpower enhancements (IOW, if you choose OTHER things), it's not overpowered to NEARLY the same degree.

And if a wizard never casts instakill spells, then disintegrate is never a problem.

Your point is...?

 

[hong]

I don't mean to belittle anyone, but here's my personal heresy: I think the outlook of 'brokenness' is largely an expression of lack of self-confidence on the part of the DM.

Actually, no. Brokenness can also be an expression of laziness on the part of the DM.

This is why I banned polymorph other, improved invis, polymorph any object, and most death spells from my campaign, and nerfed fly, teleport, harm and disintegrate. I couldn't be bothered trying to work out counters to all these spells when I could use my time far more gainfully in actually setting up and running the game.

 

[Pax]

And if a wizard never casts instakill spells, then disintegrate is never a problem.

Your point is...?

That the problem is not needfully inherent to th class, but is the result of one specific ability which needs especial attention.

IOW, Wizards aren't broken because spells like disintegrate exist; if anything in your example is broken, it'd be the instakill spells (which, as a matter of opinion, I do not agree with).