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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1207920" data-attributes="member: 5171">I agree that you have the right to an opinion.  I happen to disagree with it, but it's good for both the player and the DM to hear all sides.For my part, I think that the flavor is getting in the way here.  If it had been 24 knife-wielding cultists in red robes who held aloft bloody severed heads before dominating people, nobody would be saying "Hey, man, he might have been led into that cult by peer pressure or false pretenses, and even though he detects as evil and sacrificed an entire town to some dark force of fiendish origin, I still think we ought to try to redeem him."From a real-world perspective, I would classify this as being shot at by an eleven-year-old with a handgun.  Do I want to kill an eleven-year-old?  No.  Is it going to give me a vicious thrill?  No.  Am I happy about the state of the world that results in me getting shot at by an eleven-year-old?  No.  Do I nevertheless defend myself, even if it means that I have to kill the eleven-year-old?  Most definitely.  It's a tragedy that he's been led into this situation, but I have just as much right to live as he does -- and regardless of whether the deal made with the eleven-year-old was tempting or dishonest or somehow tricky, the fact is that the eleven-year-old is going around shooting people and must be stopped, even if the circumstances do not allow the eleven-year-old to be stopped with anything other than lethal force.(In order to make this metaphor fit, of course, it would be 24 eleven-year-olds, each with a gun that could be fired even while bound and gagged, and if I got hit by the bullet, I have to go commit crimes for them -- oh, and given that the eleven-year-olds have all these abilities, I have no idea whether or not giving them a light rap on the head is going to work.  If I were someone who prized myself on my ability to do good (like, say, a paladin), the notion of being turned into a tool for evil would be pretty reprehensible.)Now, does that mean that any paladin who would hold back is stupid?  No.  Such a paladin could have an ironclad code that states that only evil outsiders, evil divine spellcasters, evil dragons, and evil summoned creatures can be slain without an attempt at redemption or an attempt to subdue.  The paladin could have a weakness for children, which, roleplaying-wise, would be no different from Steve the Paladin-Ranger, dedicated companion and friend of his celestial horse, having trouble killing a nightmare because even though he knows it's evil, it looks like something that he has loved all his life.  It's not too dissimilar from the entire strategy concept of the succubus -- "You don't want to kill me, I don't look threatening in the usual way."  Roleplaying somebody as falling for that ploy is perfectly legitimate.  But it should not be utterly necessary.</blockquote>

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