Primus: Homebrewers I think you'll like this. Everyone else take a look

damieus

First Post
Hey everyone, who here is a homebrewer? By that I mean not only who actually makes their own game systems or significantly alters existing ones, but who here likes to look at new game systems and experiment with them?

I ask this because I'm in the planning phase of a brand spankin new project that will not just be another RPG system, but I am curious to see what kind of interest such a project would ingender. (By the way it is free, in case you are worried about spending money)
 
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Re: Homebrewers

damieus said:
Hey everyone, who here is a homebrewer? By that I mean not only who actually makes their own game systems or significantly alters existing ones, but who here likes to look at new game systems and experiment with them?

I ask this because I'm in the planning phase of a brand spankin new project that will not just be another RPG system, but I am curious to see what kind of interest such a project would ingender. (By the way it is free, in case you are worried about spending money)

Mmmmmm. Beer. Wait, that other kind of homebrew.

I like to make new systems. Do you have anything in particular?
 

Yes I do. Primus is the system's codename, and if it comes out as well as I've been envisioning, it will be the first real revolution in RPGing since DnD came out.

Curious? I'd hope so, its really cool. Think DnD = MS-DOS, Primus = Linux.
 

gamebasics

Here's the intro (mission statement) to Primus.

What is the strength of the internet? Why has d20 taken off so significantly? What is it about those two that they share?

Free and open communication. The internet works so well because anyone can post just about anything and it can be viewed by a huge audience. d20 has taken off because wizards made it open gaming material.

So Primus will take this to a new level. I use the Linux analogy a lot, but I think it bears mentioning in this context, since no one here has heard it before.

Linux is an OS that is built and maintained by a worldwide group of hackers (programmers) that are dedicated to the OS enough so that they maintain and add on to it free of charge, out of the goodness of their heart. (Or some other reason we can't even fathom) Linux is freely distributed and anyone can get a copy of it for little to nothing. In addition, it happens to be the most powerful, resiliant and customizable OS known to man. Everything is open source, meaning you can go in and change something if you don't like the way it works. I've often heard stories of Unix servers that run for months or years without ever having to be rebooted. Toys R Us has Unix servers to handle their transactions from each register from all stores in a region and they havent been rebooted in over a year. Those puppies are really getting hammered, but they just take it and keep rolling. (I know this because I was working on some software for them)

So it is obvious to anyone who looks at the situation that an OS built and maintained by dedicated users is infinitely superior to something built and maintained by a large company. And on top of the superiority, the OS is totally free.

So what does this all have to do with RPGs? What possible point could this raving psycho have to make?

Here is the deal.

Wizards is the RPG equivalent of Microsoft. Well that is not entirely fair. They did make their basic system free of charge, but when they add functionality, it is not free. Plus, while in the Unix community, if something is made that is an improvement over the original material, then it is embraced and propogated in the next version. When we want something to change in d20 we may as well just forget it.

As is evidenced by the extremely high quality of, say, scarred lands, we all know that RPG materials written by and for gamers are the highest quality.

So who is the gamer equivalent of unix freaks? Us. We love games and are willing to work on them for free. (not all the time, but some of the time) We want to make the highest quality game system known to man, but we have no real way to go about it.

So enter Primus. The idea behind Primus is that it will be an open source, community-based and community-driven game system for roleplaying. Every aspect of it will be open to the public free of charge. I am in the process of setting up a file server from which you can download the core rules at any time. In addition, I will set it up so that user made additions, modifications, and enhacements can be uploaded to the server.

The community can discuss these changes and additions at length and improve on them. If the general consensus is that the new part is good enough or original enough to add to the quality of Primus as a whole, it will be made canon and added to the official rules, and any old material will be stuck in the usermade modifications folder.

Example: Say we are using a d20 to determine all checks. Then the community (after lots of hot debate I am sure) decides that a 3d6 is a better way to go. I will modify the official document to include 3d6 instead of 1d20 and make 1d20 an optional modification.

So, with a community dedicated to talking about and improving the system, and with a central file server to upload all original material to, we have a truly open system. Made by gamers, for gamers.

Next: Primus basic tenets
 

Well i dunno if people just aren't interested or if I'm being too impatient. Oh well, I guess I'll check back a little later. In the meantime feel free to give me little: "I think this is an all-around bad idea" comments.

ty
 

Give me more information and I'll check it out. At least it might amuse my roomate for a while. Got a link for what you got?
 

Task Resolution?

That's a big thing with me: TR. Single roll (as in d20)? D-D (as in Feng Shui)? Die pool tally successes (as in Story Teller)? Die Pool add results (as in WEG d6)? High-End Reroll (roll a die, reroll if it's equal to stat+skill or higher)? Die Pool Kepp High (roll a bunch of dice, keep the highest 1 or few, as in L5R)? How's the game work?
 

Basic Tenets

hehe, ok fair enough.

While I was hoping to get some feedback on the general principles, I'll go ahead and do the basic tenets.

Bear in mind since I want this to be a community-developed project, all of this is open to discussion.

-Task Resolution: Leaning towards a d20. d20 is not a bad system and I have a strong feeling that Primus will draw heavily from it.

-Basic statistics: At the current stage there are six basic statistics, Strength, Agility, Vitality, Perception, Intelligence and Wisdom. You'll notice that there is no Charisma score. That is because of my intrinsic belief that the charisma of the character is best represented by the player's ability to roleplay and not by the score you roll with a 3d6. However, for people who are not into roleplaying, wisdom makes a good substitute under this system. More on statistics later.

-Classes: This is probably the most different from d20. The similarity is this: under both systems, you choose a class and that choice influences your character's growth. The other similarity is that both systems allow you to customize your character.

Essentially you choose a class path from the basic classes at character creation. Those are Warrior, Adept, Mystic, and Scout. Each class has a list of abilities that are class abilities. Some of them are class-specific abilities which means that that ability is only available to members of that class. If you wish to purchase a (for lack of a better term) 'cross-class' ability, you pay double the price for it.

Example Class Ability

Catalyst
Class: Adept
Type: Active
Effect: By channelling some of your own mana to a comrade, you may aid in his spellcasting. You may contribute any amount of mana to the other spellcaster's spell at a 2:1 ratio. (wording needs work, I agree)

If you are a little confused about how this will all come together, please continue reading.

As your character levels up, his secondary statistics (ie: health and mana) will be determined by your basic statistics and your level. As an example: if you have 10 vitality, at level 2 you would have 12 health (hit points). Those aren't exact real numbers, just an example.

I know you are thinking: "But a fighter should have more hit points than a mage! Under your system, the mage would have just as much as the fighter!"

A ha! Now we see passive abilities

Sample Passive Ability:

Toughness
Class: Warrior
Effect: Total Hit Points are increased by 5%.

In addition, your character earns Job Points (name taken shamelessly from FFT; concept is similar), which can be spent on class or cross-class abilities.

Now just having the ability is not enough for it to be used. This is where the concept of ability points comes in.

All characters have a certain amount of AP based on their current level. Using that AP the abilities must be equipped. (This can be done at any time that the character has access to a trainer) At least 40% of AP must be spent on class abilities. (You can't make an adept with all warrior abilities, though you can make an adept with a few warrior abilities) If you don't have enough abilities to equip, at least 40% must be spent on class abilities or left blank.

But I hate to bind characters to this sort of rigid class-structure so we need to talk about class changes.

At any time that you have access to a trainer in the class you would like to learn, you may switch classes to any new class that you qualify for. So I am a warrior who has been learning about the divine (picking up a few Mystic abilities) and now I feel that my true calling is to become a priest. I go to the local temple and am trained in the arts of the mystic. (maybe pay a fee to get this training) Now I am a mystic and any JP I amass may be spent on mystic abilities for normal price. (However warrior abilities now cost me double) Since this is the first time I have been a mystic, my initial AP setup will probably have the full 60% available set to warrior abilities, since that is where most of my strength lies currently. I would also equip as many mystic abilities as I have learned and leave the rest of my AP unused. Once I get some JP I come back to the temple and have the trainer teach me some mystic abilities. I use the rest of my AP on these newly aquired abilities and maybe even switch out some of my warrior abilities for mystic ones.

Since JP and XP are seperate (though related) it is theoretically possible to get huge amounts of JP without ever getting a level. Thus, there is a JP cap. Your character may only spend a certain amount of JP earned on any given class. For instance, perhaps if I am level 10, I can only spend up to 1000 JP on any given class abilities, no matter how many JP I amass. I'll just have to spend those extras on cross-class abilities! Anyway it is still balanced because you have to use AP to equip the learned abilities, and since those do not increase until you get a level up, you are stuck at a pretty even level of power regardless of how many JP you get. Although someone who has gotten a lot of JP will be more flexible.

Advanced Classes

Well there can't just be four classes. That would be boring. So there are more classes than just the basics. For instance, an adept who has been taking abilities related to the necromatic arts will eventually qualify to become trained as a necromancer, once he finds a trianer. A mystic who feels drawn to nature should seek out a grove to be trained as a druid. A warrior who feels somewhat divine but not so much that he wants to become a cleric would join the Order of Paladins and learn some amazing holy powers. He might even have a brief stint as a mystic or a cleric to boost his spellcasting abilities.

Next: More on Statistics, Weapons, and Armor
 

I'v always modified systems to suit my needs, so what you propose certainly interests me. I have a significant portion of a sytem called Legend that I have been playing with, that I know will never see thelight of day. Maybe if the thoughts are compatable i will present them to you and those who become involved in your idea.

On a seperate note, I don't really agree that Charisma shold be removed a stat. Mainly because by your argument, inteligence should be removed as well. Problem solving in any roleplaying game always comes down to a persons own intellect. We don't normally allow a player to roll INT and see f he gets an idea.

=kane
 

Good point there kane, but I wouldnt use intelligence for that anyway. There are plenty of other applications for the intelligence statistic other than getting an idea or solving a puzzle. But (and maybe it is just me) my groups have absolutely no use for the charisma statistic since their roleplaying overrides any bad charisma scores, or their roleplaying absolutely sucks and no amount of high charisma can save them. The only thing that we use it for is Sorcerer spells and I'm sure we dont need a whole ability score for that.

But is there some use for charisma that does not involve interaction with NPCs? :confused: if so, I will gladly stick it back on the roster. At this stage of development it wouldnt hurt anything or make anything significantly more complicated.
 

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