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<blockquote data-quote="Gromm" data-source="post: 120179" data-attributes="member: 2245">Yes but if you walked right up to the square the halfling was in and began to search you would see him because the DC for your spot roll would be so low.&nbsp; He basically cannot hide if you are looking at the square hes in (unless hes invisible I guess). Why not just attack the square he's in? It takes a full-round action to search, so I guess you mgiht find him if he sat there waiting for you to slowly make your way over to him.&nbsp; Even then the only reason you'd probably find him is because you'd touch him. Search isn't really a pure &quot;seeing&quot; skill, it involves touching things, and looking, etc. Looking at a plain wall doesn't reveal a secret door, you push on stones and look and feel and listen and something happens or you discover something odd.I'll reiterate. Search can NEVER EVER be used to spot a hidden character. Ever. Never. Ever. Thats what spot is. Likewise Spot can't be used to detect say a trap or find a secret door. Each skill has its own thing that it does. Spot is used to find creatures. Search is used for secret doors/traps and the like. As far as when to let the characters use search. Never. If they want to do it let them and then make them automatically surprised by whatever is out there waiting for them (they aren't paying attention to anything save a 5' square in front of them). After a couple of times of this they should stop metagaming failed Spot rolls.&nbsp; Or just as good always have it fail. Like I said they can't move very fast and anything hiding from them would just move out of the way anyway (if only with a 5' step if nessessary).Besides if they know which 5' square to search anyway, the enemy isn't really hidden. If they are guessing have them pick a square on a big sheet of graph paper. Odds are they wont get it right anyway. Then take actions for the creature on the surprise round.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gromm, post: 120179, member: 2245"] Yes but if you walked right up to the square the halfling was in and began to search you would see him because the DC for your spot roll would be so low. He basically cannot hide if you are looking at the square hes in (unless hes invisible I guess). Why not just attack the square he's in? It takes a full-round action to search, so I guess you mgiht find him if he sat there waiting for you to slowly make your way over to him. Even then the only reason you'd probably find him is because you'd touch him. Search isn't really a pure "seeing" skill, it involves touching things, and looking, etc. Looking at a plain wall doesn't reveal a secret door, you push on stones and look and feel and listen and something happens or you discover something odd. I'll reiterate. Search can NEVER EVER be used to spot a hidden character. Ever. Never. Ever. Thats what spot is. Likewise Spot can't be used to detect say a trap or find a secret door. Each skill has its own thing that it does. Spot is used to find creatures. Search is used for secret doors/traps and the like. As far as when to let the characters use search. Never. If they want to do it let them and then make them automatically surprised by whatever is out there waiting for them (they aren't paying attention to anything save a 5' square in front of them). After a couple of times of this they should stop metagaming failed Spot rolls. Or just as good always have it fail. Like I said they can't move very fast and anything hiding from them would just move out of the way anyway (if only with a 5' step if nessessary). Besides if they know which 5' square to search anyway, the enemy isn't really hidden. If they are guessing have them pick a square on a big sheet of graph paper. Odds are they wont get it right anyway. Then take actions for the creature on the surprise round.;) [/QUOTE]

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