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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JEB" data-source="post: 8037600" data-attributes="member: 10148">So I'm not sure about D&D, but I can speak a bit on the Cthulhu Mythos.Lovecraft was definitely worse than the average racist of his era. I used to buy that he wasn't any more racist than average, but some research led me to things he said in his letters, and I was dissuaded of that. Keep in mind that Robert E. Howard, hardly a paragon of racial tolerance himself, apparently felt the need to push back on Lovecraft's rhetoric at times. There are some possible (if weak) indicators that Lovecraft was getting better towards the end of his life, but we'll never know. As such, I gave up reading Lovecraft's works themselves, whether or not there was anything particularly racist in them. It just felt too much like giving him a pass; separating the art from the artist doesn't really work for me (and increasingly I find that argument too convenient).But the Cthulhu Mythos are a more complicated question. These other creators using Lovecraft's ideas aren't Lovecraft. Why should their works be condemned for what someone else believed? Isn't it OK for others to use his creations if they're not operating from the same racist POV that Lovecraft did? Heck, as broadly as they're used today, concepts like Cthulhu and the Necronomicon are arguably just part of geek culture now, with a life arguably independent from even the Cthulhu Mythos.Personally? I haven't decided where I stand. I still have non-Lovecraft Mythos material on my shelves, and a small library of Call of Cthulhu sourcebooks. But every once in a while I wonder if I'm making excuses, and everything Lovecraft invented is fruit of the poisonous tree.In any case, comparing the Cthulhu Mythos to D&D works in many ways, in that numerous other creators have used, modified, reimagined, and otherwise moved beyond the source material. But there is one very important difference - D&D was never dependent on the ideas of one person. Even the original game wouldn't exist without the collaboration between Gygax and Arneson, and many early ideas that became staples of the game originated from other sources as well. So maybe the "fruit of the poisonous tree" problem doesn't exist with D&D. Or maybe it doesn't matter - one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. I'm obviously inclined towards the former - it helps that Gygax, for all his faults, wasn't as problematic a dude as Lovecraft - but I can understand where people see the latter.</blockquote>

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