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<blockquote data-quote="Ulorian - Agent of Chaos" data-source="post: 1646820" data-attributes="member: 16668">Let me quote you a few sections from the Fascinate description (3.5):&quot;The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working.&quot;&quot;Any potential threat, such as an ally of the bard approaching the fascinated creature, requires the bard to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result.&quot;&quot;Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect.&quot;The first quote clearly states that a bard can't win initiative in a combat to use his fascinate ability (which is what happened in the original poster's situation). A combat that is in its first round of initiative certainly qualifies as &quot;other dangers&quot;.Even if combat hadn't started yet, and the party rolled initiative in order to get the jump on the unsuspecting BBEG, the rules in quotes 2 and 3 were violated numerous times. The bard's allies: a) approached the BBEG b) drew weapons c) cast spells and (possibly) d) aimed ranged weapons. All of these effects necessitate either a new save or breaking the fascination.This isn't a grey area; the rules and the spirit of the rules were broken here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ulorian - Agent of Chaos, post: 1646820, member: 16668"] Let me quote you a few sections from the Fascinate description (3.5): "The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working." "Any potential threat, such as an ally of the bard approaching the fascinated creature, requires the bard to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result." "Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect." The first quote clearly states that a bard can't win initiative in a combat to use his fascinate ability (which is what happened in the original poster's situation). A combat that is in its first round of initiative certainly qualifies as "other dangers". Even if combat hadn't started yet, and the party rolled initiative in order to get the jump on the unsuspecting BBEG, the rules in quotes 2 and 3 were violated numerous times. The bard's allies: a) approached the BBEG b) drew weapons c) cast spells and (possibly) d) aimed ranged weapons. All of these effects necessitate either a new save or breaking the fascination. This isn't a grey area; the rules and the spirit of the rules were broken here. [/QUOTE]

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