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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WaterRabbit" data-source="post: 1484717" data-attributes="member: 2445">Umm…maximum human strength possible, without equipment bonuses, is 23.  Also, while DEX adds to the attack roll, it doesn’t add to the damage roll.  I was just comparing damage so the actual DEX was unimportant.However, I think you missed the point I was making.  That they are even comparable is what is odd.  To put it another way, the average damage per combat round for a firearm should be higher.  Either because an individual bullet does more damage or more bullets can be fired per combat round.I was just looking at what is in the core book.  If there was either cap on Power Attack of +/- 5 or add in Accurate Attack, then it would address the problem.  At that point we are only left with the strength issue as a problem.Double Tap adds 50% more damage in exchange for a 10% attack penalty, but it doesn’t scale with level.  Burst Fire adds 100% more damage in exchange for a 20% attack penalty.  Power Attack scales with level allowing a +1-+20 damage bonus in exchange for a comparable attack penalty.  So, at level 7 we get a 100% damage bonus, at level 14 we get 200%, and at level 20 we get a 286% damage bonus (assuming average of 7 points of damage on a 2d6 weapon.  Additionally, on a critical hit, the Power Attack damage is doubled.  Double Tap and Burst Fire dice are not (pg. 131 last paragraph).I picked 40’ so as not to cloud the issue with Point Blank Shot (a requirement for Double Tap)I would start with 17 and go to 18 at 4th (damage goes from +4 to +6)Sword: BAB +5, +4 STR, +1 WF = +10Damage:  2d6+6 ave. 13Ave. Dmg. = .95 * 13 + .95 * 13 * 0.1 = 13.59 per roundPower Attack for 5: 2d6+11 ave. 18Ave. Dmg. = .8 * 18 + .8*18*0.1 = 15.84 per roundGun: BAB +5, +4 DEX, +1 PBS = +10Ave Damge: .95 * 8 + .95 * 8 * .05 = 7.98Damage: 2d6+1 ave. 8 w/double tap 3d6+1 = 11.5Ave. Dmg. DT = .95 * 11.5 + .95 * 8 *.05 = 11.305Damage: 2d6+1 ave. 4d6+1 with/Burst Fire = 15Ave. Dmg. BF = .85 * 15 + .85 * 8 * 0.05 = 13.09But not including the change for critical hits you short change the sword.Gun: +9 to hit, Average 8, need 6 to hit8 x 75% = 6Double-Tap: Average 11.5, need 8 to hit11.5 x 65% = 7.475</blockquote>Sword: Ave. Dmg. = .8 * 13 + .8 * 13 * 0.1 = 11.44 per roundAve. Dmg PA. = .55 * 18 + .55*18*0.1 = 10.89 per roundGun:Ave Damge: .8 * 8 + .8 * 8 * .05 = 6.72Ave. Dmg. DT = .70 * 11.5 + .70 * 8 *.05 = 8.33Ave. Dmg. BF = .60 * 15 + .60 * 8 * .05 = 9.24Sword: Ave. Dmg. = .55 * 13 + .55 * 13 * 0.1 = 7.87 per roundAve. Dmg PA. = .3 * 18 + .3*18*0.1 = 5.94 per roundGun:Ave Damge: .55 * 8 + .55 * 8 * .05 = 4.62Ave. Dmg. DT = .45 * 11.5 + .45 * 8 *.05 = 5.355 Ave. Dmg. BF = .35 * 15 + .35 * 8 * .05 = 5.39Accounting for critical the gun is outclassed.  This does not even account for possible additional modifiers such as weapon specialization (3rd Strong/2nd Solider) and Melee Smash/Improved Melee Smash which together add +4 to the base damage of the sword.  It gets even worse when iterative attacks are included.  If you used a 2d8 gun the ave. damage would be 2 higher and Weapon specialization would also add +2.  So, that is a wash there.  However, the Improved Critical feat (which can be applied to either) really increases the damage potential of the sword.Fairly campaign specific, but OK.  A greatsword (actually a katana in d20 modern) fits in a gym bag just as easily as a machine gun/rifle/shotgun or any other longarm.  You also don’t strap on a sword.  Sword: Round 1 open bag (MEA), equip sword and move (MEA). Gun: Holstered pistol , draw gun and move (MEA) and fire once (AA).As shown above, in all cases a katana does significantly more damage when not using PA versus a gun not using DT or Burst Fire.  Now Double Tap and Burst Fire start to close the gap at higher target defenses compared to Power Attack.  However, that gap will once again increase as level increases.  Especially since BAB increases much faster than defense.I just don’t see “Burst Fire blowing the doors off of power attack”.  The numbers don’t bear that out.[/QUOTE]

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