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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6074434" data-attributes="member: 6669384">Short answer?  When the player character starts the conversation with the home owner, ask if he's using Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, or just sweet reason.Then ask him to make his pitch, noting that what he says and does next will be circumstance modifiers on the roll.While this isn't a railroad, it is a proactive signpost spelling out their in-character options.  If he chooses Diplomacy, make a note on how extensive his argumentation is.  Presume that the character knows how to use his skills, even if the player doesn't.  A short outline type argument is a minus modifier in my book.  Anything second person is.For example: "Well, I'm going to take the tack that we're tracking down a potential plague and ask if he's heard odd sounds in the house that might be plague rats.  After all, every old house has sounds.  That will give us an excuse to look for 'rat holes'."That's about as strong a second person, outline type argument as you'll see.  In my book it would be maybe a +1 modifier.  But I may be a bit hard in this area, in light of the fact that not everyone is a glib liar or necessarily comfortable with first person role playing.But that doesn't mean that their character isn't a glib liar,able to come up with a good cover on short notice.Same pitch, in first person might be..."Sir? I'm working with Friar Bernard here, trying to track down the cause of a few illnesses in the area.  We're concerned about it getting out of hand.  I mean, no one wants a plague in town, do they?  So, to start with, have you seen any rats or rat dropping about the property?  Have you heard any odd noises at night?  Notice any odd drafts when the weather is cold?  <pause>  Well, if you and perhaps your good wife could help us, I'd appreciate it.  We'd like, with your assistance of course, to do a quick check of the property for hollow walls where vermin might hide or breed, and for any damage they might have done to your home.  The church appreciates your cooperation."While that could easily be said in less than a minute, it conveys the feeling your character is trying to evoke, plays on the man's normal concerns about his home and family, implies some sort of official sanction from the church, all while visibly leaving the man in a controlling position over anyone who gets involved in the search.To be honest, the problem we encounter far more often is that a well designed Diplomat can get away with anything, by the rules.  Diplomacy isn't an opposed check, the target numbers are fixed.  There's no "Save vs Common Sense" for your target and nothing that even resembles a guideline for a DM to use for circumstance modifiers.Seriously, my Bard once talked a Rogue who had come to kidnap a PC to not only forgo his mission, but to please just lay down on this alter over here while the Cleric of Hades does his little ritual.  It will be a brief out of body experience, and then you'll be equipped to guide us on our great quest.  Your name will be recorded in the sagas told for ages to come.  Which name did you want recorded, by the way, as I'm sure that a man skilled in your trade probably has several...  You get the picture.  Diplomacy has been defined as "The art of telling a man to go to Hell in such a way that he looks forward to the trip."  I put that to the test, in game, and with a good roll (A +27 at the skill check helped) the DM conceded that I'd rolled a success.  Should never have worked, even if I'd rolled a million.So as a DM, don't be afraid to prompt the players a little bit at key junctures.  At the same time, have a backup plan in case they don't do what you expect.  And be prepared to cast "Dispel BS" on insane efforts like the one I just described.</blockquote>

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