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<blockquote data-quote="Jfdlsjfd" data-source="post: 7994863" data-attributes="member: 42856"><p>I must confess that, until this thread, I hadn't even noticed that the tools list was suppposed to be exhaustive by RAW. I always read that the list provided was examples of tools, like the equipment list, which is obviously not designed to be the exhaustive list of everything you could buy in any d&d world. The absence of bacon shouldn't be meant to imply, IMHO, that bacon is unavaiable but simply that the goods list was just indicative and not complete. Same with tools: the general desciption is that "a tool helps you do something you couldn't otherwise do" and that "proficiency with a tool allows you to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check made using that tool". Then the list of many craftign tools is presented, as an illustration of possible tools. <strong>So in my mind, it wasn't even a house rule to add, say Lawyers Tools to the list if needed</strong> (either because during downtime the PC elects to study or practice law or to give to an NPC the PC could want to hire). It's only when checking, while reading this thread, that Xanatar uses the exact same list as the PHB, that I realized that it could be understood as an exhaustive list. But I am pretty sure there are millers or thatchers in D&D world despite the absence of mention of said professions' tools.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's exactly how I read it. If someone defines his character as a drilll and ceremony professional, it would be covered by being proficient in the soldiering tools and you could roll INT to know about military customs or DEX or STR (?) to succesfully execute a drill under pressure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One of the complaint that was made in this thread was that a lawyer character built this way would be equally good at estimating the likely outcome of a trial based on precedent (INT+history) and at remembering the list of the Roman emperors, and he'd mechanically need to be a very good haggler (CHA+persuasion) as a side effect of him presenting a case in front of a judge. I think having him be proficient in tne tools of the lawyers resolve that problem (as it narrows the proficiency to a specific field while broadening it to several key "skills").</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jfdlsjfd, post: 7994863, member: 42856"] I must confess that, until this thread, I hadn't even noticed that the tools list was suppposed to be exhaustive by RAW. I always read that the list provided was examples of tools, like the equipment list, which is obviously not designed to be the exhaustive list of everything you could buy in any d&d world. The absence of bacon shouldn't be meant to imply, IMHO, that bacon is unavaiable but simply that the goods list was just indicative and not complete. Same with tools: the general desciption is that "a tool helps you do something you couldn't otherwise do" and that "proficiency with a tool allows you to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check made using that tool". Then the list of many craftign tools is presented, as an illustration of possible tools. [B]So in my mind, it wasn't even a house rule to add, say Lawyers Tools to the list if needed[/B] (either because during downtime the PC elects to study or practice law or to give to an NPC the PC could want to hire). It's only when checking, while reading this thread, that Xanatar uses the exact same list as the PHB, that I realized that it could be understood as an exhaustive list. But I am pretty sure there are millers or thatchers in D&D world despite the absence of mention of said professions' tools. That's exactly how I read it. If someone defines his character as a drilll and ceremony professional, it would be covered by being proficient in the soldiering tools and you could roll INT to know about military customs or DEX or STR (?) to succesfully execute a drill under pressure. One of the complaint that was made in this thread was that a lawyer character built this way would be equally good at estimating the likely outcome of a trial based on precedent (INT+history) and at remembering the list of the Roman emperors, and he'd mechanically need to be a very good haggler (CHA+persuasion) as a side effect of him presenting a case in front of a judge. I think having him be proficient in tne tools of the lawyers resolve that problem (as it narrows the proficiency to a specific field while broadening it to several key "skills"). [/QUOTE]
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