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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6606242" data-attributes="member: 2067">Nah, I'd settle for a solid core differentiating mechanic and a lack of snarky strawmen. Again, if you take away the proficiencies, the spell list, and the "I prepare infusions, not spells!" cosmetic change, on the grounds that none of those are sufficient for a class distinction, what is an artificer left with? Or, what would you give them? How does being an item master matter in the mechanics of the game? How is it distinct? What does it offer? Paladins are different from fighters not because of spellcasting (eldritch knights), but because of smites and divine senses and divine domains. Rangers are different from fighters not because of an emphasis on bows (dex-based fighter) but because of their semi-magical wilderness survival abilities (which even spell-less rangers get!). Sorcerers are different from wizards because of sorcery points and metamagic. Meanwhile, assassins are rogues because they don't have a big distinctive mechanic in them - they're just rogues with great weapon support and a particular approach to fighting. Battlemasters are fighters because manuevers don't achieve that escape velocity either - variations on "I hit it with a rider" aren't distinctive enough. What is this for the artificer? Or the psion (@Minigiant 's idea of psionic attacks/defenses has legs!)? Or the warlord? What would it be? If that's what you think this is, then you don't understand what I'm saying. I apparently can't repeat "an artificer that earned that position would be great" or "this is also a problem with psionics and warlords when it comes up" often enough for people to rid themselves a Manichean perspective here. There's no need for self-imposed limits (a wizard-artificer player who wants buffs focuses on abjurations; a wizard-artificer player who wants to throw grenades focuses on evocation; a wizard-artificer player who wants construct buddies focuses on conjuration; et al), system mastery (what, suddenly using Rituals as they were intended is advanced D&D?), or that much refluffing (changing "prepare a spell" to "make an item" is pretty cosmetic). ...so I don't really concur. Though I agree that if something required those three things, it would probably not be sufficient.</blockquote>

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