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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 6608341" data-attributes="member: 6786252">Personally, I thought it was "could be a group of subclasses" because 1) I'm used to thinking of starting the game at level 3, standard for me.  2) The main ability when people talk about artificer, the whole "I'm flexible with spells" thing is pretty much the whole point of a wizard over anyone else.When you start looking at people who are saying that they want artificer to be defined by being flexible with magic through items...  its pretty easy to compare the two.   From a design standpoint, they DO share a lot in common. To be fair, a lot of the sorcerer shares a list with the wizard.   This is a direct result of people complaining that the sorcerer wasn't enough like its alternative-wizard manifestation in 3e.  So, sorcerer as a whole was made more like the evoker wizard.This narrow definition works for the dragon sorcerer, but if we're to look at Favored Soul and possibly Psion and Shaman as subclasses, its clear that the Sorcerer needs to spread out more in terms of the spell list.   Favored Souls need more cleric spells and the Shaman.... actually, no idea what they'd need other than more spirits/summons than we do have.If we consider the dragon sorcerer the only viable sorcerer (ignoring wild magic, which many do), then yes, it could have just been a wizard subclass.  We need tweaking and more spells for the various subclasses for the Sorcerer to really stand apart.  I personally consider the Sorcerer to have more in common with the Psion than its namesake of previous editions.   Its effectively taken the Psion mechanics (power points by another name) and narrative (magic through internal power source).  The only thing missing are crystals (a new focus and some magic items), some appropriate spells, and an INT casting stat, easily reassigned through an Origin trait.  I really think that the plans were to present a sorcerer that looked like the wizard with the core book for those that wanted a "wizard like sorcerer," and then expand after.   Could be wrong, but that's my impression.    Personally, I wish they'd done the Favored Soul as part of the core book Sorcerer.   It would have given us a lot better look at her and what spells to put in her list.</blockquote>

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