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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6621377" data-attributes="member: 2067">It's a finer point. I think there, you need to be able to persuasively make the case that the character type is actually incompatible with the elements you're hoping to subtract. And it can be a hard case to make. Like, if you proposed the artificer as a subclass of cleric or rogue or bard, this would probably come into play. Above and beyond the story/conceptual reasons (which might not even really apply to rogues or bards), you'd just need to subtract so much of the class's features that are not good for artificers - clerics without turn undead, rogues who can't hide using cunning action, bards who can't countercharm, etc. It's clearly not a comfortable fit.But there's nothing incompatible with the concept of an artificer and a <s>spellbook</s> equipment manual (arguably, it makes MORE sense like this than with everything just being in their heads at all times). And the same applies to higher level spells - if artificers can craft things akin to the well of many worlds or the ring of three wishes, there's nothing incompatible with the idea that they can <s>cast</s> infuse gate or wish into an item. This is especially true if you're just going to give them these capabilities by the some other mechanic anyway.Yeah, the case would need to be made that an artificer cannot have the spells a current wizard does in the way that they can't have turn undead or sneak attack. It's a harder case to make in the case of "I have this <s>book of spells</s> manual of little tweaks I can make to things to make them magical."If artificers can infuse magic missile into a wand, then they can cast magic missile. If artificers can infuse wish into a ring, they can cast wish. In fact, one of my big issues is that making an item that can cast Spell X isn't very distinct in play from just casting Spell X (certainly not in the way that smite and action surge are distinct, for instance).</blockquote>

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