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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6623074" data-attributes="member: 7635">Agreed, but there in lies the rub. The artificer needs a mechanic to reflect its "tinker" with magic items ability. The question is really "How". The problem is twofold: the magic item/creation rules in the DMG are broad, vague, and nothing to hang a class on (they barely work for a PC wanting to craft something in their spare time, much less a character dedicated to it.) At the moment, most people haven't gotten an idea that they can spit-ball and say works because right now, most people haven't yet grocked to class building. There is obviously an art to it, but right now we lack enough examples (the PHB, 2 sorcerer subclasses, and a UA article) to really go off of. As a result, most people are feeling comfortable cribbing what's been done before as a starting point. So yes, the artificer needs a strong central mechanic. I think the "build magic items temporarily/permanently" is a strong core concept; it just needs a good mechanical expression. Some have suggested a point-based system akin to sorcerer metamagic, some suggest magic items filling the role of the warlocks invocations. Some think something like a battlemaster's superiority dice or a bard's inspiration dice might work. Other's think pure spellcasting can do it. Maybe it will look like some, all, or none of these. WotC probably has a few ideas tossing around. However, the idea that since nobody has suggested such a system (yet) is indicative that the class cannot work as a stand-alone though is annoying and plain wrong; because nothing HAS been suggested doesn't mean it WON'T be. I have great faith that artificer will come up with something that can satisfy fans of the 3e and 4e versions. The wizardficer subclass is NOT it though. For the record, I think the Psion is in the same boat; we might not need wilders, ardents and eurdites again, but a strong base psion (and a few psionic subs for psychic warriors, lurks, etc) with a unique list of powers and some power point mechanic is on target. I fully expect this to happen as well. Because IMHO, these two classes might not have the strength of bards or rangers in lineage, but they have strong bases and are pretty popular among fans; enough so that a simple wizard subclass will not scratch the itch of either classes fans. So lets quit trying to prove they are wizards in funny costumes and focus on what these "unique mechanics" can look like. You suggested infusion dice, I suggested magic item "invocations", lets build on those.</blockquote>

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