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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Proficiencies don't make the class. Do they?
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6623609" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Exactly. Why have a class feature that is most strategically useful in a way that's <em>dull as heck</em>? Why "punish" a strategic player for wanting a character to go out and adventure (or, reward one who wants to play it as safe as possible by never going out)? A full-class artificer shouldn't be mechanically better at being a crafting NPC than a being a crafting PC; they should have an incentive to be <em>with</em> the party, not at home while a party loaded with their items (and thus, apparently, all of their spells for the day?) goes out and does stuff. </p><p></p><p>A wizard-subclass-artificer has to get out and adventure because their <s>spells</s>infusions still require their presence to <s>cast</s>infuse, only work for a little while (ie, not the whole day, so they have to be around to recast), and can only be done one (or maybe a few) at a time (because of the Concentration requirement). They can't just drop a few of them in the morning and go home, their class contribution done for the day. </p><p></p><p>Crafting permanent or consumable items is a presumed part of the artificer, something they do during down time, and they do better than anyone (using the DMG system with some time/money discounts as a "ribbon" ability, or, possibly even better, some new system with a unique suite of artificer-specific items, or whatever). But these items aren't going to be how they contribute in the flow of play, they aren't active decisions they make in exploration or interaction or combat. </p><p></p><p>There might be room for crafting temporary items out in the field. I'm thinking maybe something like the rock gnome's tinkering ability, or 5e-style expensive components, or an "arcane focus," where one bit of equipment can be re-used, possibly for different effects. If every artificer had a tool pouch that carried various gears and springs and whatnot, and they could use that to use their infusions, that would work...but it would also essentially be the same thing as a component pouch, so we're basically back at temporary artificer "items" being the same thing as spells in that case. </p><p>"I infuse this collection of metal plates and speical mythril thread into your clothes" = "I cast mage armor" kind of stuff. </p><p></p><p>But this is part of that struggle - a class whose fiction is about creating items might need to spend most of their in-play time doing something else, but they still need to feel like they're making items, and unless it's just the same as spellcasting, it needs to be significantly different from that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What you've got here looks a lot like a reskinned bard (with your dice being the same as, but more limited than, inspiration dice). You can save everyone the time and effort of this class by basically saying, "If you want to play an artificer, play a bard, and swap your spellcasting ability score from Charisma to Intelligence."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6623609, member: 2067"] Exactly. Why have a class feature that is most strategically useful in a way that's [I]dull as heck[/I]? Why "punish" a strategic player for wanting a character to go out and adventure (or, reward one who wants to play it as safe as possible by never going out)? A full-class artificer shouldn't be mechanically better at being a crafting NPC than a being a crafting PC; they should have an incentive to be [I]with[/I] the party, not at home while a party loaded with their items (and thus, apparently, all of their spells for the day?) goes out and does stuff. A wizard-subclass-artificer has to get out and adventure because their [s]spells[/s]infusions still require their presence to [s]cast[/s]infuse, only work for a little while (ie, not the whole day, so they have to be around to recast), and can only be done one (or maybe a few) at a time (because of the Concentration requirement). They can't just drop a few of them in the morning and go home, their class contribution done for the day. Crafting permanent or consumable items is a presumed part of the artificer, something they do during down time, and they do better than anyone (using the DMG system with some time/money discounts as a "ribbon" ability, or, possibly even better, some new system with a unique suite of artificer-specific items, or whatever). But these items aren't going to be how they contribute in the flow of play, they aren't active decisions they make in exploration or interaction or combat. There might be room for crafting temporary items out in the field. I'm thinking maybe something like the rock gnome's tinkering ability, or 5e-style expensive components, or an "arcane focus," where one bit of equipment can be re-used, possibly for different effects. If every artificer had a tool pouch that carried various gears and springs and whatnot, and they could use that to use their infusions, that would work...but it would also essentially be the same thing as a component pouch, so we're basically back at temporary artificer "items" being the same thing as spells in that case. "I infuse this collection of metal plates and speical mythril thread into your clothes" = "I cast mage armor" kind of stuff. But this is part of that struggle - a class whose fiction is about creating items might need to spend most of their in-play time doing something else, but they still need to feel like they're making items, and unless it's just the same as spellcasting, it needs to be significantly different from that. What you've got here looks a lot like a reskinned bard (with your dice being the same as, but more limited than, inspiration dice). You can save everyone the time and effort of this class by basically saying, "If you want to play an artificer, play a bard, and swap your spellcasting ability score from Charisma to Intelligence." [/QUOTE]
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Proficiencies don't make the class. Do they?
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