Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Proficiency vs. Ability vs. Expertise
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7641050" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>You can invest in INT, but you're not really making them a super-dedicated specialist; you're making them generally better at knowledge stuff, which has the side effect of also making them better at their specialty.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Increasing the proficiency bonus is simple but it screws up game balance across a whole bunch of stuff. I like the notion that competence at a task is a mix of general-purpose and special purpose skill/ability, and that they matter about equally until late in your career, when characters become more differentiated by areas of focus. </p><p></p><p>(I realize that the full range of ability modifiers is a difference of 6, which is where proficiency caps out, so that proficiency only matches the most extreme ability difference by the highest levels, but I think the more appropriate comparison between a generalist and a specialist isn't proficient with 8 in the stat vs non-proficient with 20; it's more like proficient with a 12 vs non-proficient with a 16 to start, increasing to 20 over time. That means the generalist and the regular specialist are on roughly equal footing. assuming the generalist prioritizes stat bumps over feats, until mid-levels, when the specialist starts to pull away.)</p><p></p><p>Super-specialists (i.e., characters with expertise and a middling stat of 12 or so) get to accelerate the differentiation process, getting about a +2 edge over the untrained generalist (starting 16 in the stat and devoting ASIs to it) in Tier 1 (+5 vs +3), which increases gradually to +3 then +4 in Tier 2 (+7 vs +4, then +9 vs +5). Then, just when the ordinary specialist is pulling away from the generalist, the growth in the expert's edge accelerates, allowing them to also overtake the character who is both a generalist and a regular specialist. But this doesn't happen until level 13.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7641050, member: 6966824"] You can invest in INT, but you're not really making them a super-dedicated specialist; you're making them generally better at knowledge stuff, which has the side effect of also making them better at their specialty. Increasing the proficiency bonus is simple but it screws up game balance across a whole bunch of stuff. I like the notion that competence at a task is a mix of general-purpose and special purpose skill/ability, and that they matter about equally until late in your career, when characters become more differentiated by areas of focus. (I realize that the full range of ability modifiers is a difference of 6, which is where proficiency caps out, so that proficiency only matches the most extreme ability difference by the highest levels, but I think the more appropriate comparison between a generalist and a specialist isn't proficient with 8 in the stat vs non-proficient with 20; it's more like proficient with a 12 vs non-proficient with a 16 to start, increasing to 20 over time. That means the generalist and the regular specialist are on roughly equal footing. assuming the generalist prioritizes stat bumps over feats, until mid-levels, when the specialist starts to pull away.) Super-specialists (i.e., characters with expertise and a middling stat of 12 or so) get to accelerate the differentiation process, getting about a +2 edge over the untrained generalist (starting 16 in the stat and devoting ASIs to it) in Tier 1 (+5 vs +3), which increases gradually to +3 then +4 in Tier 2 (+7 vs +4, then +9 vs +5). Then, just when the ordinary specialist is pulling away from the generalist, the growth in the expert's edge accelerates, allowing them to also overtake the character who is both a generalist and a regular specialist. But this doesn't happen until level 13. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Proficiency vs. Ability vs. Expertise
Top