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Proficiency vs. Ability vs. Expertise
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<blockquote data-quote="77IM" data-source="post: 7642463" data-attributes="member: 12377"><p>My favorite house-rule for Expertise is this:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">If your ability modifier is less than your proficiency bonus, you can use your proficiency bonus in place of your ability modifier. (Making it d20 + prof + prof instead of d20 + ability + prof.)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">If your ability modifier is greater than or equal to your proficiency bonus, you get +1. (So you still get something for Expertise even if your maxxing your ability score.)</p><p></p><p>A rule like this would have a couple of beneficial effects:</p><p></p><p>1. It maintains bounded accuracy, since the most it can put you out of bounds by a measly 1 point. This helps maintain the drama of uncertainty around ability checks.</p><p></p><p>2. It discourages super-specialization (a type of min-maxing) because the better your ability score the less you get from Expertise.</p><p></p><p>3. It reduces the importance of ability modifiers since you can compensate for low modifiers with Expertise.</p><p></p><p>4. Because it maintains bounded accuracy, you could actually apply this kind of Expertise rule to things like attack rolls and saving throws, keeping them on the same scale as ability checks. Currently, there PCs never get Expertise on attacks and saves, and if monsters get it, it's very rare (I haven't checked thoroughly; many creatures do get Expertise on skills, though). If you allowed this sort of Expertise on attack rolls, it would let you play-against-type to some degree (e.g., the 4E avenger who has low Str but wields a greatsword, or the heavy-crossbow fighter with a mediocre Dex). If you allow this sort of Expertise on saving throws, it lets you do things like skill vs. saving throw (e.g. Intimidation vs. Wisdom save or Athletics (grapple) vs. Str or Dex save), and also represent certain character concepts (such as the low-Wis character who is stubborn enough to have a good Wis save).</p><p></p><p>5. It requires almost zero monkeying with the math in the rest of the system. You don't need to rewrite monster stat blocks (monsters are weird so they can just keep using the old double-proficiency version). This in turn allows you to open up Expertise to other classes than just rogue and bard.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="77IM, post: 7642463, member: 12377"] My favorite house-rule for Expertise is this: [INDENT]If your ability modifier is less than your proficiency bonus, you can use your proficiency bonus in place of your ability modifier. (Making it d20 + prof + prof instead of d20 + ability + prof.) If your ability modifier is greater than or equal to your proficiency bonus, you get +1. (So you still get something for Expertise even if your maxxing your ability score.)[/INDENT] A rule like this would have a couple of beneficial effects: 1. It maintains bounded accuracy, since the most it can put you out of bounds by a measly 1 point. This helps maintain the drama of uncertainty around ability checks. 2. It discourages super-specialization (a type of min-maxing) because the better your ability score the less you get from Expertise. 3. It reduces the importance of ability modifiers since you can compensate for low modifiers with Expertise. 4. Because it maintains bounded accuracy, you could actually apply this kind of Expertise rule to things like attack rolls and saving throws, keeping them on the same scale as ability checks. Currently, there PCs never get Expertise on attacks and saves, and if monsters get it, it's very rare (I haven't checked thoroughly; many creatures do get Expertise on skills, though). If you allowed this sort of Expertise on attack rolls, it would let you play-against-type to some degree (e.g., the 4E avenger who has low Str but wields a greatsword, or the heavy-crossbow fighter with a mediocre Dex). If you allow this sort of Expertise on saving throws, it lets you do things like skill vs. saving throw (e.g. Intimidation vs. Wisdom save or Athletics (grapple) vs. Str or Dex save), and also represent certain character concepts (such as the low-Wis character who is stubborn enough to have a good Wis save). 5. It requires almost zero monkeying with the math in the rest of the system. You don't need to rewrite monster stat blocks (monsters are weird so they can just keep using the old double-proficiency version). This in turn allows you to open up Expertise to other classes than just rogue and bard. [/QUOTE]
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