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Proficiency vs. Ability vs. Expertise
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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7642980" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>And here I thought we were finally getting somewhere! I still really don't like solutions that diminish the value of expertise (or that prevent rogues and bards from taking expertise in DEX or CHA skills, respectively), unless there is a sufficiently compelling feature being added to make up for it. And letting expertise replace instead of add is straight up diminishing its value (outside the edge case where you dump the stat all the way to 8, but I don't like encouraging that either); and so you're just straight up making rogues and bards worse classes.</p><p></p><p>The 2d10 system with RAW bonuses makes it so that for tasks of moderate difficulty, the first few points of bonus are worth more than the next few. Yes, for those sorts of tasks, expertise becomes a greater value than it was before. But the boon to proficiency is even greater. But unlike reducing the bonus granted by expertise, the non-linear difficulty curve redistributes the value of expertise in a given skill toward more difficult DCs. If you take expertise in a skill that uses your main stat, you'll get the most bang for your buck on really hard tasks (which don't come up as often), but if you take it on an off skill (making yourself more well rounded), then the benefit to you is greater on more typical tasks.</p><p></p><p>But if you think 2d10 makes it too easy in general to succeed on skill checks, you could always couple it with reduced bonuses across the board; on net you'd still get more for proficiency than you do RAW, and that at least would affect everyone instead of singling out rogues and bards.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7642980, member: 6966824"] And here I thought we were finally getting somewhere! I still really don't like solutions that diminish the value of expertise (or that prevent rogues and bards from taking expertise in DEX or CHA skills, respectively), unless there is a sufficiently compelling feature being added to make up for it. And letting expertise replace instead of add is straight up diminishing its value (outside the edge case where you dump the stat all the way to 8, but I don't like encouraging that either); and so you're just straight up making rogues and bards worse classes. The 2d10 system with RAW bonuses makes it so that for tasks of moderate difficulty, the first few points of bonus are worth more than the next few. Yes, for those sorts of tasks, expertise becomes a greater value than it was before. But the boon to proficiency is even greater. But unlike reducing the bonus granted by expertise, the non-linear difficulty curve redistributes the value of expertise in a given skill toward more difficult DCs. If you take expertise in a skill that uses your main stat, you'll get the most bang for your buck on really hard tasks (which don't come up as often), but if you take it on an off skill (making yourself more well rounded), then the benefit to you is greater on more typical tasks. But if you think 2d10 makes it too easy in general to succeed on skill checks, you could always couple it with reduced bonuses across the board; on net you'd still get more for proficiency than you do RAW, and that at least would affect everyone instead of singling out rogues and bards. [/QUOTE]
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Proficiency vs. Ability vs. Expertise
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