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Proficiency vs. Ability vs. Expertise
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7643646" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>Well, we might still. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No problem. I am fine with people challenging my ideas with creative and suggestive content. And you bring up valid points, so I am happy to continue the discussion. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why? Why!? WHY!?! This is one of the issues that bugs me the most. Can't they come up with something other than making rogues (and partially bards) skill monkeys to give them an identity? The already start with more skills than other classes, with bards having unlimited skill choices. There is no justifiable reason why these classes should have a feature that will put them above other classes, especially in areas those classes traditionally would excel at. Even without an ability modifier <em>at all</em>, at maximum expertise allows +12 while no other classes can exceed +11 without a archetype feature or magic.</p><p></p><p>Other than a pure game mechanic reason (Hey, let's make is so these classes can be awesome at skills!) there is no reason for expertise to work this way. I would rather it simply grant advantage or something else. Even with my idea (taken from whoever suggested it first LOL), expertise can make a big difference in weaker skills and still offer an edge to something they are great at.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And if we can find something we agree on that would be great!</p><p></p><p>But consider this, a ranger and a rogue, both with DEX 18 (let's not get crazy) and proficiency +4, but the rogue has expertise. Why is he so much better than the ranger? Must the ranger dip into rogue for expertise simply to be as good at stealth? I mean, I could give expertise to all the other classes (you spend two proficiencies on one skill to gain expertise in that skill), and basically rogues get "bonus" expertises.</p><p></p><p>While that would remove some of the issue, it doesn't take care of the rest of the balance of power, so to speak, between proficiency, ability, and expertise... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True, and I agree with that, but simply granting a bonus that in a fashion can make them hands-down better than most others to the point of ridiculousness is also an issue (as I have expressed numerous times LOL!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 7643646, member: 6987520"] Well, we might still. ;) No problem. I am fine with people challenging my ideas with creative and suggestive content. And you bring up valid points, so I am happy to continue the discussion. :) Why? Why!? WHY!?! This is one of the issues that bugs me the most. Can't they come up with something other than making rogues (and partially bards) skill monkeys to give them an identity? The already start with more skills than other classes, with bards having unlimited skill choices. There is no justifiable reason why these classes should have a feature that will put them above other classes, especially in areas those classes traditionally would excel at. Even without an ability modifier [I]at all[/I], at maximum expertise allows +12 while no other classes can exceed +11 without a archetype feature or magic. Other than a pure game mechanic reason (Hey, let's make is so these classes can be awesome at skills!) there is no reason for expertise to work this way. I would rather it simply grant advantage or something else. Even with my idea (taken from whoever suggested it first LOL), expertise can make a big difference in weaker skills and still offer an edge to something they are great at. And if we can find something we agree on that would be great! But consider this, a ranger and a rogue, both with DEX 18 (let's not get crazy) and proficiency +4, but the rogue has expertise. Why is he so much better than the ranger? Must the ranger dip into rogue for expertise simply to be as good at stealth? I mean, I could give expertise to all the other classes (you spend two proficiencies on one skill to gain expertise in that skill), and basically rogues get "bonus" expertises. While that would remove some of the issue, it doesn't take care of the rest of the balance of power, so to speak, between proficiency, ability, and expertise... :( True, and I agree with that, but simply granting a bonus that in a fashion can make them hands-down better than most others to the point of ridiculousness is also an issue (as I have expressed numerous times LOL!). [/QUOTE]
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