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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 7643976" data-attributes="member: 6802951">We're looking at the 5e Rogue and 5e Ranger here.I have no issues with the Rogue being generally better than the Ranger in skulking in a dark alley, blending into a crowd, or moving across a forest full of dry leaves as purely mundane exercises. Because in the situations where I see the generic Ranger as being superior, they are: using class abilities or spells, a ranger can not only surpass the Rogue in stealth, but also pull of things that the Rogue cannot even attempt. That's like adding the caster's casting ability modifier to every die when rolling Cantrip damage. Because spells are a limited resource so should never be taken into consideration when comparing combat effectiveness.One of the Rogue's major schticks is their focus on mundane skills. They get better at climbing walls when others can cast Fly or get short-range teleports etc. They get really good at sneaking when others can turn invisible, or transform into innocuous creatures etc. They get extra dice representing dirty fighting where others get Extra Attack or Lightning Bolt etc.</blockquote>