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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7644512" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Great! I have to work tomorrow (mandatory overtime, *yuck*), but let's make some magic happen! I'm sure together (and with the occasional idea from others) we can create something that works.Goals:1. Yes. My premise is that experience (and the "training") that goes along with it, reflected by proficiency, should be the largest factor. Initially, I was thinking roughly along a 50/25/25 split, so in theory expertise in a skill could match ability. My current idea is +8 max prof, +4 max ability (18 cap), and +4 max expertise. This is nearly the same potential as RAW at +17, and a slight boost over the +11 for non-expertise with a +12 potential.2. Yes again. Although stealth has been my scapegoat in all this, as I said the same problem can exist with any of the skills. I have no issue with a rogue being as good as others, I just fail to see why they should have to potential to be better aside from a purely "let's give them something" idea.Avoids:Yeah, the all are good things to avoid. I don't want to detract from rogues/bards as skill monkeys, but would rather find some other way to represent the idea than just boosting their numbers. Well, remember those numbers were without buffs, etc. against targets considered equal to you. Since more often than not your targets will be less than you in ability, etc. and when high risk is present you will probably have buffs of some nature. So, that 40% isn't "worst-case scenario", but it is close. True, multiple targets can make it more difficult, but unless it is active, once the rogue's roll beats the passive scores, he is in the clear.Which brings #3, the problem with passive perception. Yeah, there is a problem IMO. I am not sure what to do with this one. I like the idea behind it, but not how it functions RAW. We make it really "passive" in that the DM uses it only when the player isn't specifying they are looking for something. I can explain it further if you want. Anyway, ultimately I want to keep skill modifiers to +11 or 12, similar to attack rolls and saves. So, my current +8 prof and +4 ability works, but then removes expertise completely as a numbers boost. The idea of advantage gives better results, but keeps the max to the limit. Allowing expertise to function in other ways (make a check as a bonus action instead of an action, etc.). If the maxes are the same, then I am perfectly happy that a rogue expert in arcana can do as well as a wizard with max INT. Then I wouldn't have to grant expertise to other classes to get rid of the fluff idea of rogues simply potentially being "better" just because they can. This was one reason why i like expertise allowing a rogue to use the better of proficiency or ability, doubled. This works ok with RAW proficiency and ability, which would keep me from having to adjust things to my +8/+4 idea.Well, that is it for now. I need to get to sleep since i have to leave for work at 7 AM. Sigh.. Looking forward to your thoughts. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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