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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 7644561" data-attributes="member: 6802951">Stealth doesn't always have to be an opposed check. Sneaking past one monster might be, but then you're only past one monster. The odds of success go down considerably with multiple checks.Rather than make the sneaker roll for every single guard as they take half an hour to deal with the rogue's scouting mission, the DM can simply set a DC based on the task that the sneak actually wants to accomplish.e.g Scout an orc camp, getting layout and numbers: DC20.Actually infiltrate said camp, getting to a specific tent: DC 25etc.&nbsp;This is important I think. - Is it a case of &quot;Since skills are a purely mundane, nonmagical expression of a character's abilities, there shouldn't be any reason why one class should be better at them than another&quot;?Why do you think the skill monkey class should not be better at skills than other classes? - That would help understand the best angle for houserules for you.&nbsp;How do you feel about Garthanos' suggestion that expertise gives a special ability based on the skill rather than a numbers boost?So a Rogue who wanted to have expertise in Stealth might pick the ability to move faster without taking a penalty to stealth checks, or to not be tracked, or to move into cover as part of the hiding action or similar rather than getting a bonus to their rolls.&nbsp;While a Rogue can use Str to sneak attack just fine, raising Str at the cost of Dex is going to hurt them in other areas, such as AC, initiative, and some traditionally roguey skills such as Stealth. That is a sacrifice of some note.&nbsp;I can see the proficiency thing should be more independent of CR, but what do you not like about the weapon table?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 7644561, member: 6802951"] Stealth doesn't always have to be an opposed check. Sneaking past one monster might be, but then you're only past one monster. The odds of success go down considerably with multiple checks. Rather than make the sneaker roll for every single guard as they take half an hour to deal with the rogue's scouting mission, the DM can simply set a DC based on the task that the sneak actually wants to accomplish. e.g Scout an orc camp, getting layout and numbers: DC20. Actually infiltrate said camp, getting to a specific tent: DC 25 etc. This is important I think. - Is it a case of "Since skills are a purely mundane, nonmagical expression of a character's abilities, there shouldn't be any reason why one class should be better at them than another"? [I]Why [/I]do you think the skill monkey class should not be better at skills than other classes? - That would help understand the best angle for houserules for you. How do you feel about Garthanos' suggestion that expertise gives a special ability based on the skill rather than a numbers boost? So a Rogue who wanted to have expertise in Stealth might pick the ability to move faster without taking a penalty to stealth checks, or to not be tracked, or to move into cover as part of the hiding action or similar rather than getting a bonus to their rolls. While a Rogue can use Str to sneak attack just fine, raising Str at the cost of Dex is going to hurt them in other areas, such as AC, initiative, and some traditionally roguey skills such as Stealth. That is a sacrifice of some note. I can see the proficiency thing should be more independent of CR, but what do you not like about the weapon table? [/QUOTE]

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