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Proficiency vs. Ability vs. Expertise
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7645245" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>First, like I said, great job and I know it was a lot of thought and effort.</p><p></p><p>Your chart seems a bit off though for expertise (unless the error lies within my own calculations... *shrug*), so I've included my own chart based on what I believe were your assumptions:</p><p></p><p>1. Level 5, so proficiency is +3 (or 1d6). Thus, expertise is also +3 (or 1d6).</p><p>2. Ability 18 is now +3 as well, not +4.</p><p></p><p>Using 2d10 results in an average of 11, instead of 10.5, increasing it by 1/2 point. Since proficiency is by die roll, the average result is slightly higher than the base proficiency (2.5 vs 2, 3.5 vs 3, etc.), again by 1/2 point. To counter-balance this inflation, you are reducing ability score modifiers by 1. Next, you are applying a slightly higher average benefit for expertise via the variable die roll (again, 1/2 point), but now it is only applied a bit over half the time (55% for 11-20). In other words, when you roll badly, you don't gain the benefit of your expertise. Instead of an expected boost of 3.5, it is only 1.925 (3.5 x 0.55). However, your system stretches the maximum possible totals even higher than RAW for proficient and expert characters due to the random die roll (not something our table desired).</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]107882[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>So, I see your point about proficiency and non-proficiency for DCs at or below 20 and 15, respectively. Conversely, above those levels, the probability with your idea makes things harder. That wasn't one of my goals. As I said before, hard tasks are already hard with only proficiency and ability, making them even harder is counter-productive. I am not sure where the confusion lies that led you to think otherwise. If something I wrote misled you, my sincere apologies!</p><p></p><p>Now, expertise. Well, even with your idea, expertise offers roughly the same probabilities at all the DCs (+/- 3.5%, average of -0.26%). Overall, it is slightly lower, but that is expected since you are only using it 0.55% of the time. The fact that nearly half the time it isn't used, but overall still offers nearly the same probabilities, means it actually has greater impact.</p><p></p><p>I've attached my excel file for your viewing (I had to remove the macro through). Oddly enough, if you change your condition to add expertise if the 2d10 roll is LESS than 12, expertise produces a curve more like I am looking for, as shown in the second chart:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]107883[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Anyway, more to think about. Time for sleep.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 7645245, member: 6987520"] First, like I said, great job and I know it was a lot of thought and effort. Your chart seems a bit off though for expertise (unless the error lies within my own calculations... *shrug*), so I've included my own chart based on what I believe were your assumptions: 1. Level 5, so proficiency is +3 (or 1d6). Thus, expertise is also +3 (or 1d6). 2. Ability 18 is now +3 as well, not +4. Using 2d10 results in an average of 11, instead of 10.5, increasing it by 1/2 point. Since proficiency is by die roll, the average result is slightly higher than the base proficiency (2.5 vs 2, 3.5 vs 3, etc.), again by 1/2 point. To counter-balance this inflation, you are reducing ability score modifiers by 1. Next, you are applying a slightly higher average benefit for expertise via the variable die roll (again, 1/2 point), but now it is only applied a bit over half the time (55% for 11-20). In other words, when you roll badly, you don't gain the benefit of your expertise. Instead of an expected boost of 3.5, it is only 1.925 (3.5 x 0.55). However, your system stretches the maximum possible totals even higher than RAW for proficient and expert characters due to the random die roll (not something our table desired). [ATTACH=CONFIG]107882._xfImport[/ATTACH] So, I see your point about proficiency and non-proficiency for DCs at or below 20 and 15, respectively. Conversely, above those levels, the probability with your idea makes things harder. That wasn't one of my goals. As I said before, hard tasks are already hard with only proficiency and ability, making them even harder is counter-productive. I am not sure where the confusion lies that led you to think otherwise. If something I wrote misled you, my sincere apologies! Now, expertise. Well, even with your idea, expertise offers roughly the same probabilities at all the DCs (+/- 3.5%, average of -0.26%). Overall, it is slightly lower, but that is expected since you are only using it 0.55% of the time. The fact that nearly half the time it isn't used, but overall still offers nearly the same probabilities, means it actually has greater impact. I've attached my excel file for your viewing (I had to remove the macro through). Oddly enough, if you change your condition to add expertise if the 2d10 roll is LESS than 12, expertise produces a curve more like I am looking for, as shown in the second chart: [ATTACH=CONFIG]107883._xfImport[/ATTACH] Anyway, more to think about. Time for sleep. [/QUOTE]
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