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Proficiency vs Non-Proficiency
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<blockquote data-quote="JiffyPopTart" data-source="post: 7597225" data-attributes="member: 4881"><p>I think the hang up is that you are equating the 5e rule crumb called (Character Proficiency Bonus) with "skill" or even "training". All the 5e Proficiency Bonus does is provide a way to show that a character is better at something than a baseline. Note that this doesn't mean ULTIMATELY BETTER AT 20TH LEVEL) it just means better than others.</p><p></p><p>"skill" also includes feat, race, stat, and other bonuses. Getting a +5 bonus to a roll because of your awesome stat bonus is because even if your character never exclusively chose History as something they learned during character creation, they still have read A LOT and have picked up a lot of history along the way. When you just throw out "everything but proficiency bonus" you are throwing out some of the fundamentals that help model the character.</p><p></p><p>Simply put....a 1st level Wizard who is as Intelligent (indicating book learning and INT +5) as he could possibly be but never showed an interest in History particularly is going to be as likely to know something as Conan, slayer of 1000 dragons, who was raised by a librarian before he headed out to slay beasts, never to read a book again (INT -1, PROF +6). The real "ULTIMATE SKILL" guy in this scenario is the 20th level Wizard who has read and understood everything he could get his hands on (INT +5) AND showed a particular interest in History (PROF +6). Note that just because the first two examples might beat the SUPER HISTORY WIZARD at any given roll (whatever percentage of times) it doesn't matter, because History is not a D20 vs. D20 roll off. Sure, they might know some particular fact the SHW doesn't know, but one fact in an infinite number of facts is inconsequential.</p><p></p><p>DS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JiffyPopTart, post: 7597225, member: 4881"] I think the hang up is that you are equating the 5e rule crumb called (Character Proficiency Bonus) with "skill" or even "training". All the 5e Proficiency Bonus does is provide a way to show that a character is better at something than a baseline. Note that this doesn't mean ULTIMATELY BETTER AT 20TH LEVEL) it just means better than others. "skill" also includes feat, race, stat, and other bonuses. Getting a +5 bonus to a roll because of your awesome stat bonus is because even if your character never exclusively chose History as something they learned during character creation, they still have read A LOT and have picked up a lot of history along the way. When you just throw out "everything but proficiency bonus" you are throwing out some of the fundamentals that help model the character. Simply put....a 1st level Wizard who is as Intelligent (indicating book learning and INT +5) as he could possibly be but never showed an interest in History particularly is going to be as likely to know something as Conan, slayer of 1000 dragons, who was raised by a librarian before he headed out to slay beasts, never to read a book again (INT -1, PROF +6). The real "ULTIMATE SKILL" guy in this scenario is the 20th level Wizard who has read and understood everything he could get his hands on (INT +5) AND showed a particular interest in History (PROF +6). Note that just because the first two examples might beat the SUPER HISTORY WIZARD at any given roll (whatever percentage of times) it doesn't matter, because History is not a D20 vs. D20 roll off. Sure, they might know some particular fact the SHW doesn't know, but one fact in an infinite number of facts is inconsequential. DS [/QUOTE]
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