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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 5041325" data-attributes="member: 4722">I wish I could find a copy. I did a search last week and turned up nothing. Upper Krust (a high-epic designer) has a book called Ascension, which has rules for divinity and such. I might pick it up to see what all he's got.Weren't you the one who advocated against immunities?They're still gods, aren't they? What difference does it make how they got there?So explain to me what nonsi's point was, because I'm missing it entirely.The original text (which has since been revised for clarity) read:Yes, it was unclear, but your assertion that it wasn't stated at all is clearly false.So... you're condemning it because I accidentally left out a sentence? Granted, it's a rather important one, but still - not worth throwing a fit over.Wrong-o. The Ftr 20/Bbn 20 is BAB +30, Fort +22, Ref +17, Will +17*. The Clr 20/Drd 20 is BAB +30, Fort +22, Ref +17, Will +22. See, I use the <a href="http://project-phoenix.wikidot.com/classes:multiclassing" target="_blank">fractional BAB/save system</a>, in addition to the altered progression. (At this point, I should thank you for pointing this out; I added the fractional BAB/saves well after I came up with this, so it was a good opportunity to go over things and make sure it still worked - and it does, like a charm). *Let's say, for the sake of illustration, that you have a Ftr 20/Pal 20 - this gives us a combination of two good saves (Fort), two bad saves (Ref), and one of each (Will). The PC thus ends up with Fort +22, Ref +17, Will +20.I spent a lot of time trying to figure out a workable alternate epic progression. I quickly found out that simply extending the existing progression into infinity wouldn't work, so I played around with things until I hit on the current idea. I tested it with several combinations of classes, against the EAB/EAS system, and even took the average CR/AC of a creature from the ELH (using Upper Krust's CR rules and a formula someone gave me for expected BAB/saves at any given level) to compare my BABs to those ACs. The last isn't very scientific, granted, but it's the best I could do short of actual playtesting. Want to see my notes? I'll happily share them with you or anyone else who wishes to challenge my results: <a href="http://project-phoenix.wikidot.com/local--files/design:design-and-development/legendary%20progressions.zip" target="_blank">http://project-phoenix.wikidot.com/local--files/design:design-and-development/legendary progressions.zip</a>Wrong again. I see where your mistakes are coming, though: all BAB progressions, regardless of the order of your classes or how many you take, continue to +20. Only after that point does the EAB kick in and your BAB reverts to +1/2 levels. And that IS clearly stated, right <a href="http://project-phoenix.wikidot.com/legendary:legendary-rules" target="_blank">here</a>.I can't find the quote now, but you made reference to a monk's BAB advancing faster than a fighter's. It's actually the reverse - the fighter's progression is slower. A small distinction, but an important one - the fighter's progression is slowed to let the monk's "catch up", as it were. Once they're even, they increase at the same rate. All BABs, regardless of class composition, advance at the exact same rate after L40 - you can be L4000 and still have the same AB as the L4000 guy next to you. This is part of the reason I placed the cap at L40. Slowing the faster AB progressions provides better balance, as we've seen from the ELH, but they failed to let the slower ones catch up - without this rule, you'll end up with the result you stated above: +30, +27, and +20. Which isn't bad, all things considered, since mages very rarely get into melee combat, and any spells they use are either touch or ranged touch, but you still have to worry about order of class levels up to L20. My system, along with the fractional BAB/saves, eliminates that concern. You want a L35 PC with levels in 6 classes? No problem! Tot up the BABs and save bonuses, and off you go.(I should admit at this point, however, that the system needs a good deal more explanation and examples. I'll take care of that soon, since I'm going to be updating the legendary classes as well.)As for mages getting 4 attacks... it's a side effect of the system. I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out how to make exceptions for corner cases like this that have little to no effect on game balance.</blockquote>

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