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Projector suggestions?
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<blockquote data-quote="Steel_Wind" data-source="post: 5485731" data-attributes="member: 20741"><p>Hi Thraug,</p><p></p><p>I was one of the first guys on ENWorld to start the projector craze six years ago. A lot has changed since then -- but a few things have not. Let me address your "want list" first, as there is one component of your list which is extremely unrealistic which needs addressing. After that requirement is dealt with -- I think the rest falls into line.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Orange"><strong>Woah.</strong></span></p><p></p><p>No, you don't want this. You just think you do. Let me show you why.</p><p></p><p>A 4x6 projection surface is 48" x 72". That's a total of 3,456 square inches in your projection surface. An XGA projector, which is about all you can afford in that price range, has a resolution of 1024x768 = 786,432 pixels.</p><p></p><p>By the time you spread 786,432 pixels over the screen real estate that is present in a 4x6 projection surface, your pixel density drops to 227 per sq. inch. That's 15 pixels high by 15 pixels wide per sq inch.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure how old you are Thraug, but I'm guessing you are in your thirties or forties. If you are in your thirties, you might be too young to remember seeing a graphic image that is 15 pixels x 15 pixels, but if you are in your forties --you definitely have seen such a similar image before, because it only a <em>tiny bit better</em> in resolution height (and the exact same in resolution width) as this:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/mgold/SpaceInvaders06292005005618AM/Images/SpaceInvaders.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></p><p></p><p>Whenever you spread your pixel density out over such a large projected surface, <span style="color: Orange"><em><strong>the detail drops like a rock</strong></em></span>. We don't notice this much when we are watching a movie or a TV show, because:</p><p></p><p>1 - We are sitting well back from the projected image. The recommended viewing distance for a 7' screen (and that's what a 4x6 image is, when measured on the diagonal) is about 11 feet+ away from the image; and</p><p></p><p>2- The human brain processes a moving image at 60 fps very, very, differently than it does a static one. The human eye evolved to catch the overall meaning of a moving image (prey or predator) and it tends to ignore the details. When you freeze frame that image? Different story. Then the human eye is all about detail -- and that's when the pixelation issues will crystallize into a big pile of "yuck".</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Orange"><strong>End result:</strong></span> For purposes of a game table, you absolutely do not want an image which is 4'x6' (a 7 foot screen). It is way, way too large, the detail will be horrible and your pixelation is very close to approaching Space Invaders in terms of overall resolution.</p><p></p><p>I might add that by the time you have spread that many pixels out over that large a surface, you will also have a washed out image in terms of its brightness and contrast. You won't be happy with the brightness and contrast of the image, at all when viewed from a playing distance. So not only will the picture be pixelated all to hell -- it will be very dim, too. You won't like it.</p><p></p><p>So what I am saying is very simple: Thraug, you need to rethink your expectations here rather dramatically.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Orange"><u><strong>The Day of the Projector is Over</strong></u></span></p><p></p><p>Now, with that out of the way, I will say this rather clearly. Notwithstanding the fact that I was one of the guys who started all of this, I am no longer recommending projectors to anyone for use with Tabletop RPGs. The day of the projector is over.</p><p></p><p>It isn't that the idea is a bad one, it's that the competing technologies have progressed to the point where buying a new projector no longer makes any sense.</p><p></p><p>What you should get, in my opinion, is a Samsung 5000 series LED flat panel 46" 1080p display.</p><p></p><p>That panel's image is frikkin GORGEOUS and the thickness of that unit is only 1.13", sitting on your gaming table. You'll want to raise it a little to provide for some air circulation and cooling, but trust me Thraug -- if you have $750 bucks to spend for a gaming projector? The Samsung 5000 series is what you want.</p><p></p><p>Page 2 of the thread <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/300922-computers-projectors-battle-maps-2.html" target="_blank">here</a> has <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5459464-post42.html" target="_blank">my post concerning the Samsung 5000 </a>as well as <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5459893-post48.html" target="_blank">O'ryan's post where he shows the Samsung 5000 in action</a>. O'Ryan's pics are not optimized to show off the max size of his new flat panel screen -- they are literally pics which were taken an hour or so after he got the unit home and out of the box.</p><p></p><p>They are, for all that, the most gorgeous pictures of this technology available for use with a tabletop RPG. Those pics are "state of the art" for RPG game tables right now. And the state of the art is that projectors are now passé.</p><p></p><p>Check out your local Best Buy for the Samsung 5000. Don't let the salesman try to upsell you on the newer 120 Hz models. The salesman is right -- for fast moving images, 120 Hz will result in a somewhat better image in movies with screeching car chases and fast action. If you want to see the best version of a Jason Bourne movie? 120Hz or 240 Hz will be better than 60 -- that much is true.</p><p></p><p>But for the primary purpose of a gaming flat panel? It will make ZERO difference, because our images aren't moving all that much.</p><p></p><p>And even so, let me tell you, my 60 Hz flat panel LCD is pretty awesome for movies already.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steel_Wind, post: 5485731, member: 20741"] Hi Thraug, I was one of the first guys on ENWorld to start the projector craze six years ago. A lot has changed since then -- but a few things have not. Let me address your "want list" first, as there is one component of your list which is extremely unrealistic which needs addressing. After that requirement is dealt with -- I think the rest falls into line. [COLOR=Orange][B]Woah.[/B][/COLOR] No, you don't want this. You just think you do. Let me show you why. A 4x6 projection surface is 48" x 72". That's a total of 3,456 square inches in your projection surface. An XGA projector, which is about all you can afford in that price range, has a resolution of 1024x768 = 786,432 pixels. By the time you spread 786,432 pixels over the screen real estate that is present in a 4x6 projection surface, your pixel density drops to 227 per sq. inch. That's 15 pixels high by 15 pixels wide per sq inch. I'm not sure how old you are Thraug, but I'm guessing you are in your thirties or forties. If you are in your thirties, you might be too young to remember seeing a graphic image that is 15 pixels x 15 pixels, but if you are in your forties --you definitely have seen such a similar image before, because it only a [I]tiny bit better[/I] in resolution height (and the exact same in resolution width) as this: [IMG]http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/mgold/SpaceInvaders06292005005618AM/Images/SpaceInvaders.jpg[/IMG] Whenever you spread your pixel density out over such a large projected surface, [COLOR=Orange][I][B]the detail drops like a rock[/B][/I][/COLOR]. We don't notice this much when we are watching a movie or a TV show, because: 1 - We are sitting well back from the projected image. The recommended viewing distance for a 7' screen (and that's what a 4x6 image is, when measured on the diagonal) is about 11 feet+ away from the image; and 2- The human brain processes a moving image at 60 fps very, very, differently than it does a static one. The human eye evolved to catch the overall meaning of a moving image (prey or predator) and it tends to ignore the details. When you freeze frame that image? Different story. Then the human eye is all about detail -- and that's when the pixelation issues will crystallize into a big pile of "yuck". [COLOR=Orange][B]End result:[/B][/COLOR] For purposes of a game table, you absolutely do not want an image which is 4'x6' (a 7 foot screen). It is way, way too large, the detail will be horrible and your pixelation is very close to approaching Space Invaders in terms of overall resolution. I might add that by the time you have spread that many pixels out over that large a surface, you will also have a washed out image in terms of its brightness and contrast. You won't be happy with the brightness and contrast of the image, at all when viewed from a playing distance. So not only will the picture be pixelated all to hell -- it will be very dim, too. You won't like it. So what I am saying is very simple: Thraug, you need to rethink your expectations here rather dramatically. [COLOR=Orange][U][B]The Day of the Projector is Over[/B][/U][/COLOR] Now, with that out of the way, I will say this rather clearly. Notwithstanding the fact that I was one of the guys who started all of this, I am no longer recommending projectors to anyone for use with Tabletop RPGs. The day of the projector is over. It isn't that the idea is a bad one, it's that the competing technologies have progressed to the point where buying a new projector no longer makes any sense. What you should get, in my opinion, is a Samsung 5000 series LED flat panel 46" 1080p display. That panel's image is frikkin GORGEOUS and the thickness of that unit is only 1.13", sitting on your gaming table. You'll want to raise it a little to provide for some air circulation and cooling, but trust me Thraug -- if you have $750 bucks to spend for a gaming projector? The Samsung 5000 series is what you want. Page 2 of the thread [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/300922-computers-projectors-battle-maps-2.html"]here[/URL] has [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5459464-post42.html"]my post concerning the Samsung 5000 [/URL]as well as [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5459893-post48.html"]O'ryan's post where he shows the Samsung 5000 in action[/URL]. O'Ryan's pics are not optimized to show off the max size of his new flat panel screen -- they are literally pics which were taken an hour or so after he got the unit home and out of the box. They are, for all that, the most gorgeous pictures of this technology available for use with a tabletop RPG. Those pics are "state of the art" for RPG game tables right now. And the state of the art is that projectors are now passé. Check out your local Best Buy for the Samsung 5000. Don't let the salesman try to upsell you on the newer 120 Hz models. The salesman is right -- for fast moving images, 120 Hz will result in a somewhat better image in movies with screeching car chases and fast action. If you want to see the best version of a Jason Bourne movie? 120Hz or 240 Hz will be better than 60 -- that much is true. But for the primary purpose of a gaming flat panel? It will make ZERO difference, because our images aren't moving all that much. And even so, let me tell you, my 60 Hz flat panel LCD is pretty awesome for movies already. [/QUOTE]
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