Proposal - Dragon Magazine 369 - Minotaur

[CaBaNa]

Second

 

[garyh]

Ok, I'm tired of hearing about the Minotaur. Voting YES to the Dragon 369 Minotaur article, with two additions: existing minotaurs are grandfathered in and can continue to use the MM version or switch to the 369 version at level-up, and new feats and paragon paths from this article can't be used by MM minotaurs.

Yes to this as well. I like letting those affected choose.

 

[covaithe]

Eh. I'm going to chew it over a bit longer. It does seem like the easy way out, but it creates a situation where a) there are two different versions of the minotaur in play, and b) there are characters who have access to a (grandfathered) rule set that new players don't have access to. b) is... very close to being a show-stopper for me, but I'm going to think about it a bit more.

Is Vaunea the only active minotaur? And Brudd, if Halford ever comes back (I live in hope...)?

 

[Atanatotatos]

*COUGH* back from my absence, I was re-reading here...
a) No need to wait for paragon level for ferocity to give you temporary hp. After the errata, battlerage vigor gives temporary hp every time you hit with a melee or close attack.
b) Since I wouldn't say the dying condition is an "effect", I stay pretty sure that temporary hp keep you from going unconscious, or dying. If they don't, they're just the same as limited damage reduction.
c)being able to push and knock prone on an OA is not that easy. You can do it at paragon, or maybe even earlier, if you're a fighter, but there's more classes that don't have access to that kind of at-will. So it's an option. Also, Tide of Iron requires a shield.

That said, I agree with Covaithe here. It seems an easy choice, but maybe not the wisest.

 

[elecgraystone]

PHB [temporary hit points section, not real hit points] pg# 293-294 "Don’t add temporary hit points to your current hit points (if your current hit points are 0, you still have 0 when you receive temporary hit points)."

PHB [hit points, dying] pg# 293 "Dying: When your current hit points drop to 0 or lower, you fall unconscious and are dying.

So dying checks your current hp total and temp hp doesn't alter that. So a minotaur that gets temp hp from his Ferocity ability is still dying and unconscious.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

They do, however, subtract from any damage you might take while unconscious, keeping you farther from negative bloodied.

(I really like the temp hp mechanic - it is a lot like damage reduction, but not as powerful and more flexible, in a way that's easy to explain.)

 

[Atanatotatos]

Well, despite finding it still a bit counterintuitive, I couldn't find any piece of rule indicating that temporary hp can keep you from going unconscious, so I was wrong.
I can still see plenty of uses for the feature, though.
Anyway, I guess that's not the main point in question here, right? I think the main point is: should we strip minotaurs that are being played at the moment of their oversized race feature?

 

[JoeNotCharles]

covaithe, you said you were gonna chew over it a bit longer. Are you ready to vote?

 

[covaithe]

I think I'm okay with the Dragon Minotaur, but I still don't like the idea of grandfathering MM minotaurs. I think it's better to nerf one existing player than to create a situation in which there are rules in play that aren't available to new players.