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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zerith" data-source="post: 5427370" data-attributes="member: 99953">Hmmm. I've been pwned again by simple logic; I need to invest more point into that skill it would seem.oh well, might as well defend shaky then, because I got to admit, pathetic is not one I care about.If shaky is unbalanced, so is Noncombatant. so why did'nt you note a ranger or rang orientated fighter who takes noncombatant and pathetic?wait, I know why, they can foreseeable be forced into a melee.So why can't a barbarian be forced into a ranged fight?Because he is quick and durable! Yes, but mounted archers are quicker and terrain advantages are something a DM can call on at a whim to make that shaky melee barbarian of "I can kill relay relay fast"ness into a joke because of his chosen short comings.Personally I think a Hafling fighter who took slow and pathetic(Cha) would be more abusive to flaws; Give them a mounted combat, ride by attack, spirited charge and power attack for feats, then a war pony and a lanceThe Halfing is now Twice as fast as it was originally, it can deal crazed damage to a single foe each round if it charges, and it will move away every time it charges. sure, it's not able to cleave through a bach of creeps, yet, but it can still maneuver were a normal sized character can and it's hard to dismount.Sure, it's possible for something to force the halfling off its war pony, but it's more likely that a a Barbarian will be forced into into a ranged fight, low level creeps tend to use their environment to give them better odds, or so I tend to believe, and the war pony mounted Halfing is better suited for picking were to fight, it's just as fast and can still make ranged attacks, it also has better AC <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />And before you say the Halfling dos not get extra high damage and attack roles from 4 extra str, we are debating if Flaws should be added, we are not debating if one race, orcs; something that was not an original character race, make very good barbarians.The Halfing is the worst Power gaming application I can see from flaws; it takes practicably no down turn, aside from being very slow if knocked off it's mount, but gains very nice benefits. for it.Honestly, yes, Flaws open up power gaming, and pathetic, with this in mind, should either be dropped entirely or be restricted from lowering Cha. that said, Shaky is a flat out -2 range penalty, the only comparable feats to it are weapon focuses, that give only +1 to attack rolls, to one weapon. Shaky gives -2 to all ranged weapons. it's nothing to make light off.Sure, the barbarian can ignore ranged combat, but ranged combat is not going to be ignoring the barbarian, sooner or latter the barbarian will be in a ranged fight, and the flaw will bit it in the ass and all of it's melee feats will be worthlessIn the same way, sooner or latter the halfling will get knocked off it's mount and will lose a lot of its combative ability until it can hop back on again, and it will have difficulty getting to said mount, or perhaps it's mount will get killed.That is the worst abuse I can think of (perhaps slow and lame leg for the halfling if lame leg gets approved) and the one you noted, both give the character in question an edge, and they should, but they also give the character a potentially deadly weakness, and they should.</blockquote>

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