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<blockquote data-quote="azmodean" data-source="post: 2329030" data-attributes="member: 26590">Never mind, I had missed where you said that the effective spell level was learner level -1.&nbsp; The problem with this is that a Bard6/learner10 will be able to use talents as 9th level abilities.&nbsp; On the other hand, a sorceror9/learner7 will only be using talents as 6th level abilities.&nbsp; I think the equivalent spell level needs to be based on a combination of arcane caster levels and learner caster levels.&nbsp; My mistake, I meant to put:The save DC for a talent (if it allows a save) is 10 + 1/2the learner's caster level + the learner's Charisma modifier.With the learner's caster level being learner levels+arcane caster levels.This would put the progression similar to a sorceror, though all of the talents/day would be at max level, which might be a bit overpowered.&nbsp; Hmmm, that gets up in the vicinity of 20/day at learner lvl 10, which seems to be a bit much.&nbsp; That's the problem with getting away from traditional spell levels I guess.&nbsp; Not sure what would be appropriate.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="azmodean, post: 2329030, member: 26590"] Never mind, I had missed where you said that the effective spell level was learner level -1. The problem with this is that a Bard6/learner10 will be able to use talents as 9th level abilities. On the other hand, a sorceror9/learner7 will only be using talents as 6th level abilities. I think the equivalent spell level needs to be based on a combination of arcane caster levels and learner caster levels. My mistake, I meant to put: The save DC for a talent (if it allows a save) is 10 + 1/2the learner's caster level + the learner's Charisma modifier. With the learner's caster level being learner levels+arcane caster levels. This would put the progression similar to a sorceror, though all of the talents/day would be at max level, which might be a bit overpowered. Hmmm, that gets up in the vicinity of 20/day at learner lvl 10, which seems to be a bit much. That's the problem with getting away from traditional spell levels I guess. Not sure what would be appropriate. [/QUOTE]

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