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<blockquote data-quote="IronWolf" data-source="post: 5851713" data-attributes="member: 21076"><p>As a judge I have been watching this thread closely, but I haven't found myself pulled from the fence just yet. I certainly appreciate all of the discssion about it as it helps me muddle through things in forming my own opinion as I absorb the opinions being posted. Definitely glad you decided to hang around in the thread as well [MENTION=93930]Systole[/MENTION] as whether I agree with all of your reasoning it is still a valuable perspective in my opinion.</p><p></p><p>Some of my random thoughts at the moment. As I said, I think I would adopt Systole's proposal in a home game in a heartbeat, with capable(perception) being allowed. In a home game I would likely make a character wrap their own fluff around the customized trait before being allowed to use it. </p><p></p><p>To me this beats having to sift through hundreds of traits to find one that matches what you want for your character. Or having a lot of characters having been bullied as a child simply to get a +2 initiative. To me that almost breaks immersion more than simply admitting people want traits to mechanically support their character and simply giving them mechanical options to wrap their own fluff around.</p><p></p><p>This system would also minimize some of the approvals we need to do or re-fluffs if we adopted it. </p><p></p><p>But then the other side of me has the cling to rules as written side of things because this is akin to an organized play game. While in my home games I tweak rules or let things slides fairly liberally I usually find myself more reluctant to do so for OP games due to the myriad of people playing them and GMing them. I find customizing things to potentially be a slippery slope when we should just use the rules as written, warts and all. I've ruled this way on other issues that have come up during my time as judge.</p><p></p><p>So - uh, yeah - that is my long winded way of saying I am still reading this thread and still thinking about it before I cast my vote just yet.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that perception is strong, I just don't see it overwhelmingly strong - perhaps shortsightedly. If someone wants to bring Perception in as a class skill then they are passing up other traits and will be putting points to a skill that might leave them unable to put points in another skill they could use. I also think a lot of the players here tend more towards roleplaying their character and would pass on Perception simply because it doesn't make sense for their character or that from the fluff side another skill makes more sense. </p><p></p><p>As for the Knowledge skills, I guess I see the proposal as simply acknowleding there are so many more knowledge skills that to keep pace with them you need to be able to take or gain more of them with a single trait than skills that are not subdivided into further categories.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think because several of us (well, at least me) think that it is the skill is more the issue than the trait. By trying to patch it with the trait system we are starting to not only introduce a new streamlined trait system to the game, but we are also trying to start fixing other core areas of the game. As noted above, organized play to me is trying to adhere to the rules as written to keep the barrier to LPF play a little lower.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="IronWolf, post: 5851713, member: 21076"] As a judge I have been watching this thread closely, but I haven't found myself pulled from the fence just yet. I certainly appreciate all of the discssion about it as it helps me muddle through things in forming my own opinion as I absorb the opinions being posted. Definitely glad you decided to hang around in the thread as well [MENTION=93930]Systole[/MENTION] as whether I agree with all of your reasoning it is still a valuable perspective in my opinion. Some of my random thoughts at the moment. As I said, I think I would adopt Systole's proposal in a home game in a heartbeat, with capable(perception) being allowed. In a home game I would likely make a character wrap their own fluff around the customized trait before being allowed to use it. To me this beats having to sift through hundreds of traits to find one that matches what you want for your character. Or having a lot of characters having been bullied as a child simply to get a +2 initiative. To me that almost breaks immersion more than simply admitting people want traits to mechanically support their character and simply giving them mechanical options to wrap their own fluff around. This system would also minimize some of the approvals we need to do or re-fluffs if we adopted it. But then the other side of me has the cling to rules as written side of things because this is akin to an organized play game. While in my home games I tweak rules or let things slides fairly liberally I usually find myself more reluctant to do so for OP games due to the myriad of people playing them and GMing them. I find customizing things to potentially be a slippery slope when we should just use the rules as written, warts and all. I've ruled this way on other issues that have come up during my time as judge. So - uh, yeah - that is my long winded way of saying I am still reading this thread and still thinking about it before I cast my vote just yet. I agree that perception is strong, I just don't see it overwhelmingly strong - perhaps shortsightedly. If someone wants to bring Perception in as a class skill then they are passing up other traits and will be putting points to a skill that might leave them unable to put points in another skill they could use. I also think a lot of the players here tend more towards roleplaying their character and would pass on Perception simply because it doesn't make sense for their character or that from the fluff side another skill makes more sense. As for the Knowledge skills, I guess I see the proposal as simply acknowleding there are so many more knowledge skills that to keep pace with them you need to be able to take or gain more of them with a single trait than skills that are not subdivided into further categories. I think because several of us (well, at least me) think that it is the skill is more the issue than the trait. By trying to patch it with the trait system we are starting to not only introduce a new streamlined trait system to the game, but we are also trying to start fixing other core areas of the game. As noted above, organized play to me is trying to adhere to the rules as written to keep the barrier to LPF play a little lower. [/QUOTE]
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