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Message: <blockquote data-quote="elecgraystone" data-source="post: 4859839" data-attributes="member: 74232">I thought all double weapons got banned, NOT just AV ones. If that isn't the case, then I'm mistaken. And the spiked chain double weapon doesn't? A heavy blade, light blade, off hand defensive d8 weapon is bad but a flail, light blade, offhand, reach 2d4 weapon is good? Looks like the same amount of keywords... And two of the AV double weapons have LESS keywords than the spiked chain. So was it JUST the defensive part? The base weapons [whip and garrote] are worth the feat and the special abilities are worth a feat. This cost was 'paid' for by making it a multi class feat, which are stronger than a normal feat. SO changing them from multiclass requires you pay more than a single feat. For the other three weapons, lets be honest. the base weapons are NOT superior weapons and are at best martial. As such, they are worth that much of a feat. So most martial players would be able to use them but others would have to get the feat [like they'd want a longsword]. Yes I do. I'd also drop the 'martial class' requirement. That was kind of the point of requiring the weapon proficiency, to replace that. [just forgot to add it before] Plenty of non-martial classes use weapons so I fail to understand why only martial ones can use training feat. Well except the bard, which seems to the the ultimate weapon master! Sorry, back to power swap feats. I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the training ones. Now if enough people wanted to keep them, call them training power swap feats instead of multiclass feats. Basically, everything is exactly the same as before, but the feat required to get them isn't a multiclass feat. Let me bottom line it. The training feats are too strong to be a normal heroic feat. The only options I see to keeping them a multiclass feat is breaking it down into two feats. One for the weapon and one for the training. KenHood's suggestion that Superior Weapon Proficiency automatically include the abilities afforded under training and the Weapon Training feat only be there for the power swaps means you get all the goodies up front, getting more than you paid for IMO.</blockquote>

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