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<blockquote data-quote="Covetous" data-source="post: 4513336" data-attributes="member: 78815">Can I join? Anyway, my issue with spellcasters under 3e was/is that spell strength is based too much on the modifiers instead of the caster (DC = 10 + spell level + appropriate modifiers + misc modifiers). If you wanted to play a subtle spellcastrer (one who defeats foes through spells like Ray of Enfeeblement, Charm &amp; similar, as opposed to blowing them away) you are screwed. Will the Pathfinder system offer spellcasting alternatives at a future date? The Heighten Spell feat helps some, but for those classes that don't have the spell slots that a Sorcerer has it was more of a hinderance then a help (imho). &nbsp;Here's some of the stuff I toyed with: &nbsp;DC = 10 + spell level + half caster level, rounded down + Appropriate modifier + misc modifiers. The problem here was that it was better at lower levels but once spellcasters went mid (6+ to be exact) &amp; higher it went too much in their favor.&nbsp;DC = 10 + half caster level, rounded down + appropriate modifer + misc modifiers. Was better in keeping up with the saves; but all the spells, regardless of their level, wound up having the same saving throws. It also wound up making quite a few metamagic feats worthless. &nbsp;Anyone who can come up with a simple way of having Spell Strength be based more on the Spellcaster while still keeping the core 3e (or in this case, Pathfinder) mechanic I'm all ears.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Covetous, post: 4513336, member: 78815"] Can I join? Anyway, my issue with spellcasters under 3e was/is that spell strength is based too much on the modifiers instead of the caster (DC = [I]10 + spell level + appropriate modifiers + misc modifiers[/I]). If you wanted to play a subtle spellcastrer ([I]one who defeats foes through spells like [B]Ray of Enfeeblement[/B], [B]Charm[/B] & similar, as opposed to blowing them away[/I]) you are screwed. Will the Pathfinder system offer spellcasting alternatives at a future date? The [B]Heighten Spell [/B]feat helps [I]some[/I], but for those classes that don't have the spell slots that a Sorcerer has it was more of a hinderance then a help ([I]imho[/I]). Here's some of the stuff I toyed with: DC = 10 + spell level + half caster level, rounded down + Appropriate modifier + misc modifiers. The problem here was that it was better at lower levels but once spellcasters went mid ([I]6+ to be exact[/I]) & higher it went too much in their favor. DC = 10 + half caster level, rounded down + appropriate modifer + misc modifiers. Was better in keeping up with the saves; but all the spells, regardless of their level, wound up having the same saving throws. It also wound up making quite a few metamagic feats worthless. Anyone who can come up with a simple way of having Spell Strength be based more on the Spellcaster while still keeping the core 3e ([I]or in this case, Pathfinder[/I]) mechanic I'm all ears. [/QUOTE]

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