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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aoirorentsu" data-source="post: 5573307" data-attributes="member: 60129">A house rule I'm considering for future 4e games.Observation: In most cases (IMO), most of the skills in which a PC gets training are attained at 1st level.  Because these skills form the basis of the character's non-combat identity, they are an important if not the most important means by which a player's concept for their character can be created in-game.For example, I want to play a rogue as a silver tongued diplomat.  While Bluff is a rogue class skill, I imagine my rogue as indeed a quite genuine character who relies on logic and displays good etiquette.  At 1st level, in order to get Diplomacy training, I either have to spend a feat on it or, if I'm an eladrin, spend my Education racial feature on it.  In non-eladrin cases in particular, this can create a conflict between the rules and the character concept one wants to create.  Problem: the class skill list as a limiting factor for choosing trained skills at first level limits the character concepts that a given class can embody from first level.  The rules should allow players to create within reason a reflection of any character concept they would like.Considerations:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The class skill list is useful, however, for giving you a sense of the kind of people who most typically end up in the class.  Thus, getting rid of it entirely is probably unnecessary and may even be counterproductive.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> numerous multiclass feats grant skill training from the class's skill list. Multiclassing rogue and training in Arcana probably doesn’t make a lot of sense.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Particularly among martial classes, the class skill list is used as a basis for requirements for utility powers that are related to a class.  While skill powers and theme powers would enable you to have utility power options regardless of your trained skills, going too far afield in your skill choices can create difficulties to be sure.</li> </ul>Proposed House Rule: when choosing skills at first level, you may choose skills that are not on your class skill list.Clarifications:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This rule does not affect skills automatically granted as class features.  All rogues will still have training in Thievery and Stealth; all clerics will have training in Religion.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This rule does not eliminate the class skill list.  It would still be used as the basis for feats and other effects relating specifically to a class skill list, such as multiclass feats.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This rule does not affect the number of skills your class grants you training in.  A rogue would still gain training in 4 skills (in addition to Stealth and Thievery), but under this rule would not need to choose those from her class skill list.  </li> </ul>I thought I'd throw this out to everyone.  Do y'all think this is a good idea?  Any issues I haven't touched upon?Thanks!</blockquote>

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