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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Proposed Solutions to "problem" Spells
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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 380864" data-attributes="member: 3051"><p>I'll just comment on Haste and Polymorph Self.</p><p></p><p>HASTE:</p><p>Just moving it to level 4 works fine. Compare to similar spells:</p><p>Rapid Strikes (Wiz 2): one extra attack per turn</p><p>Schism (Psi 3): one extra spell cast per turn</p><p>Haste (Wiz ): one extra action per turn that can be used for an attack or spell, AND a +4 haste AC bonus.</p><p>Mass Haste (Wiz 6): group Haste.</p><p></p><p>With that progression, having it at level 4 seems right, although it's still a bit strong thanks to the AC boost. I like the material component idea there, but nothing excessive.</p><p></p><p>POLYMORPH SELF:</p><p>First of all, the most recent version of the spell (which I believe is in Tome and Blood or the PsiHB errata), you're already limited to one form per casting and they explicitly disallow constructs, outsiders, undead, etc. It's actually much more clear than the original wording. So, it's only a "problem spell" in the "confusing" sense if you don't use the new version.</p><p></p><p>Now, it's still overpowered IMHO, and so is Polymorph Other, simply due to the ability to change to a "monster" form and gain massive natural armor, reach, etc.</p><p></p><p>A house rule we came up with was to have Polymorph Self and Polymorph Other require a check very similar to Teleport (use the same table). So, if you're not very familiar with the form in question you're more likely to miss and turn into something other than what you intended. The worse the category, the further you were off; if you were trying to use it offensively, reverse the difference. A roll of "Mishap" gets you a really awful form (usually an ooze or abomination) and you can't just dispel the form at will.</p><p></p><p>Then, at level 6, add two new spells, Polymorph Self Without Error and Polymorph Other Without Error, that act just like the old versions.</p><p></p><p>Example: I'm turning Bob into a squirrel with Polymorph Other. If I screw it up, he might become a Dire Squirrel, Fiendish Dire Squirrel, etc. instead.</p><p>I'm turning myself into a Stone Giant with Polymorph Self. A small screwup turns me into a Hill Giant, a large screwup into an Ogre.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 380864, member: 3051"] I'll just comment on Haste and Polymorph Self. HASTE: Just moving it to level 4 works fine. Compare to similar spells: Rapid Strikes (Wiz 2): one extra attack per turn Schism (Psi 3): one extra spell cast per turn Haste (Wiz ): one extra action per turn that can be used for an attack or spell, AND a +4 haste AC bonus. Mass Haste (Wiz 6): group Haste. With that progression, having it at level 4 seems right, although it's still a bit strong thanks to the AC boost. I like the material component idea there, but nothing excessive. POLYMORPH SELF: First of all, the most recent version of the spell (which I believe is in Tome and Blood or the PsiHB errata), you're already limited to one form per casting and they explicitly disallow constructs, outsiders, undead, etc. It's actually much more clear than the original wording. So, it's only a "problem spell" in the "confusing" sense if you don't use the new version. Now, it's still overpowered IMHO, and so is Polymorph Other, simply due to the ability to change to a "monster" form and gain massive natural armor, reach, etc. A house rule we came up with was to have Polymorph Self and Polymorph Other require a check very similar to Teleport (use the same table). So, if you're not very familiar with the form in question you're more likely to miss and turn into something other than what you intended. The worse the category, the further you were off; if you were trying to use it offensively, reverse the difference. A roll of "Mishap" gets you a really awful form (usually an ooze or abomination) and you can't just dispel the form at will. Then, at level 6, add two new spells, Polymorph Self Without Error and Polymorph Other Without Error, that act just like the old versions. Example: I'm turning Bob into a squirrel with Polymorph Other. If I screw it up, he might become a Dire Squirrel, Fiendish Dire Squirrel, etc. instead. I'm turning myself into a Stone Giant with Polymorph Self. A small screwup turns me into a Hill Giant, a large screwup into an Ogre. [/QUOTE]
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