Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Pros and Cons of Combining Hells and the Abyss.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9027866" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>For Jewel of the Desert, they are distinct places within a single plane....but defined by <em>conquest</em>, not by <em>cosmology</em> (well, not directly.) "Hell"--properly, <em>Jannah</em>--is split between devils and demons, who constantly wage war to acquire territory therein.</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="Doctrinal reasons, you can skip if you don't care that much"]By agreement from all participants the party has spoken with, these factions appeared as a result of the War in Heaven, a conflict which was instantaneous from the perspective of anyone outside, and infinitely long from the perspective of anyone inside. The Servants (essentially, sapient celestial beings) were originally split into two factions: those who upheld the One's divine plan for existence <em>and</em> Their order to never, ever use their powers to <em>coerce</em> mortals; and those who wished to uphold the divine plan but <em>broke</em> that commandment, using their powers, as well as simple force, to <em>make</em> mortals behave as desired. During the course of the war, a third faction arose, from members of both the Servants (loyalists) and the Fallen. This third faction came to enjoy the violence and destruction of the War in Heaven <em>for its own sake</em>, reveling in the feelings, the experiences, the chaos itself.</p><p></p><p>Representatives of all three factions claim that <em>they</em> won the conflict. Devils, whom the Servants call the "Fallen," believe that they won the right to prove that their way of doing things actually fulfills the One's plan, and that they only had to accept the minor inconvenience of actually being self-consistent; they see themselves as being <em>tested</em> and the demons (the "Destroyers") as their mortal enemies. Hence, unless celestial beings interfere with a devil's activities, they are quite content to <em>not</em> fight angels at all, seeing them as simply self-limiting siblings rather than outright enemies. Demons, aka the "Destroyers," believe that they won the right to slake their eternal thirsts and sate their insatiable hungers for as long as they like. They <em>welcome</em> the opposition of both the Servants and the Fallen, because that simply makes the task more interesting, more dangerous, more thrilling.</p><p></p><p>The PCs have only ever met one proper celestial being. The rest seem to be unwilling, or perhaps unable, to interact with the mortal world <em>currently</em>, though they have done so in the past. Specifically, the Safiqi priesthood began, a couple of thousand years ago, from teachings given by Servants, so the mortal church acts as their closest proper representatives. According to Safiqi doctrine, the Servants won the war, albeit at great cost. The One cursed both of the other two factions with what they wanted: the Fallen are now bound by the iron chains of the very law they wish to enforce on others, and the Destroyers are now enslaved to the very desires they wished to stoke, incapable of feeling satisfied.[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>This means Jannah is a battleground not just of terrain but of idea and symbol. Devils reshape their part, which is often called "Hell," to be a place of perfectly orderly totalitarian law. A place for everything and everything in its place. The wheels of infernal justice grind relatively quickly, but "corruption"--so long as it does not violate the letter of the law--is rampant. Demons likewise reshape their claimed territory into something fitting them, which I guess you could call "the Abyss" but I doubt they care about naming it. "Sensory overload" would be one description, but also absolute anarchy, "you get what you can take," etc. Powerful demons have servants mostly through intimidation or beguilement, whereas devils respect the chain of command (but certainly will take any <em>justified</em> means to advance.)</p><p></p><p>So the whole of Jannah is...pretty screwed up. Anywhere outside of the most core territories that doesn't see massive, active warfare at least once a decade is either too barren or remote to be worth caring about, or too heavily defended by one side to be worth striking most of the time. Places that change hands frequently may have bizarre mishmashes of cobbled-together buildings and pristine paved streets, or continuous defacement, or half-finished projects piled on top of half-finished projects piled on top of....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9027866, member: 6790260"] For Jewel of the Desert, they are distinct places within a single plane....but defined by [I]conquest[/I], not by [I]cosmology[/I] (well, not directly.) "Hell"--properly, [I]Jannah[/I]--is split between devils and demons, who constantly wage war to acquire territory therein. [SPOILER="Doctrinal reasons, you can skip if you don't care that much"]By agreement from all participants the party has spoken with, these factions appeared as a result of the War in Heaven, a conflict which was instantaneous from the perspective of anyone outside, and infinitely long from the perspective of anyone inside. The Servants (essentially, sapient celestial beings) were originally split into two factions: those who upheld the One's divine plan for existence [I]and[/I] Their order to never, ever use their powers to [I]coerce[/I] mortals; and those who wished to uphold the divine plan but [I]broke[/I] that commandment, using their powers, as well as simple force, to [I]make[/I] mortals behave as desired. During the course of the war, a third faction arose, from members of both the Servants (loyalists) and the Fallen. This third faction came to enjoy the violence and destruction of the War in Heaven [I]for its own sake[/I], reveling in the feelings, the experiences, the chaos itself. Representatives of all three factions claim that [I]they[/I] won the conflict. Devils, whom the Servants call the "Fallen," believe that they won the right to prove that their way of doing things actually fulfills the One's plan, and that they only had to accept the minor inconvenience of actually being self-consistent; they see themselves as being [I]tested[/I] and the demons (the "Destroyers") as their mortal enemies. Hence, unless celestial beings interfere with a devil's activities, they are quite content to [I]not[/I] fight angels at all, seeing them as simply self-limiting siblings rather than outright enemies. Demons, aka the "Destroyers," believe that they won the right to slake their eternal thirsts and sate their insatiable hungers for as long as they like. They [I]welcome[/I] the opposition of both the Servants and the Fallen, because that simply makes the task more interesting, more dangerous, more thrilling. The PCs have only ever met one proper celestial being. The rest seem to be unwilling, or perhaps unable, to interact with the mortal world [I]currently[/I], though they have done so in the past. Specifically, the Safiqi priesthood began, a couple of thousand years ago, from teachings given by Servants, so the mortal church acts as their closest proper representatives. According to Safiqi doctrine, the Servants won the war, albeit at great cost. The One cursed both of the other two factions with what they wanted: the Fallen are now bound by the iron chains of the very law they wish to enforce on others, and the Destroyers are now enslaved to the very desires they wished to stoke, incapable of feeling satisfied.[/SPOILER] This means Jannah is a battleground not just of terrain but of idea and symbol. Devils reshape their part, which is often called "Hell," to be a place of perfectly orderly totalitarian law. A place for everything and everything in its place. The wheels of infernal justice grind relatively quickly, but "corruption"--so long as it does not violate the letter of the law--is rampant. Demons likewise reshape their claimed territory into something fitting them, which I guess you could call "the Abyss" but I doubt they care about naming it. "Sensory overload" would be one description, but also absolute anarchy, "you get what you can take," etc. Powerful demons have servants mostly through intimidation or beguilement, whereas devils respect the chain of command (but certainly will take any [I]justified[/I] means to advance.) So the whole of Jannah is...pretty screwed up. Anywhere outside of the most core territories that doesn't see massive, active warfare at least once a decade is either too barren or remote to be worth caring about, or too heavily defended by one side to be worth striking most of the time. Places that change hands frequently may have bizarre mishmashes of cobbled-together buildings and pristine paved streets, or continuous defacement, or half-finished projects piled on top of half-finished projects piled on top of.... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Pros and Cons of Combining Hells and the Abyss.
Top