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<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 6127148" data-attributes="member: 463"><p>AD&D - if I'm doing task resolution, typically it's using a system that does not scale by level and the chance of success can be inferred by the player from his PC's attributes - STR for feats of strength (open doors, bend bars), Charisma for interaction (loyalty %, reaction % modifier). I avoided using d20-roll-under attribute checks in my 2012 AD&D campaign because they're not in 1e and I wanted to stick as close to the RAW as possible, but again they give the player a good idea of success chance.</p><p></p><p>With 4e because both competency and task difficulty scale by default at the same rate, again a player can look at his sheet and have a good idea of where he can succeed. I've only seen problems where players don't look at their sheets and/or don't pay attention to the fiction, eg the 4e STR 10 PC who drowned trying to swim 3 miles down the (known to be) <u>exceptionally deadly</u> river, where a STR 20 PC would almost certainly have been ok, because that was a +5 difference to the swim checks. If he had even tried to swim ashore once he started getting into trouble he'd probably have been ok, though.</p><p></p><p>Basically, IME both pre-3e and 4e have decent task resolution systems that tend to give decent results, and this is probably linked to neither attempting anything like a world-sim. Both need judgement calls, eg 4e swimming rules don't say anything about weight carried, 1e has no swimming rules in the core. In practice it comes out the same. 3e has detailed rules which discourage GM judgement calls and can cause big problems where the rules are broken, eg Diplomacy as written. 4e has a few bad bits but it's written so much vaguer/woolier that they cause less problems. Also, in 3e you could be a skill monkey at the price of combat effectiveness. If you invest resources in being the skill monkey you reasonably expect the GM to not mess with the rules you depend on. 4e siloing eliminated that issue. Incidentally in my limited experience of Pathfinder I think its tweaks also did a lot to lessen the problems with 3e skills.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 6127148, member: 463"] AD&D - if I'm doing task resolution, typically it's using a system that does not scale by level and the chance of success can be inferred by the player from his PC's attributes - STR for feats of strength (open doors, bend bars), Charisma for interaction (loyalty %, reaction % modifier). I avoided using d20-roll-under attribute checks in my 2012 AD&D campaign because they're not in 1e and I wanted to stick as close to the RAW as possible, but again they give the player a good idea of success chance. With 4e because both competency and task difficulty scale by default at the same rate, again a player can look at his sheet and have a good idea of where he can succeed. I've only seen problems where players don't look at their sheets and/or don't pay attention to the fiction, eg the 4e STR 10 PC who drowned trying to swim 3 miles down the (known to be) [U]exceptionally deadly[/U] river, where a STR 20 PC would almost certainly have been ok, because that was a +5 difference to the swim checks. If he had even tried to swim ashore once he started getting into trouble he'd probably have been ok, though. Basically, IME both pre-3e and 4e have decent task resolution systems that tend to give decent results, and this is probably linked to neither attempting anything like a world-sim. Both need judgement calls, eg 4e swimming rules don't say anything about weight carried, 1e has no swimming rules in the core. In practice it comes out the same. 3e has detailed rules which discourage GM judgement calls and can cause big problems where the rules are broken, eg Diplomacy as written. 4e has a few bad bits but it's written so much vaguer/woolier that they cause less problems. Also, in 3e you could be a skill monkey at the price of combat effectiveness. If you invest resources in being the skill monkey you reasonably expect the GM to not mess with the rules you depend on. 4e siloing eliminated that issue. Incidentally in my limited experience of Pathfinder I think its tweaks also did a lot to lessen the problems with 3e skills. [/QUOTE]
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