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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6128002" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>LOL. What level of an encounter would that be in 3e? Like you said, it's winnable in 2e with a 9th level party. That's an epic level encounter in 3e. There's just no comparison. Which rolls me back to the idea of why people find 4e so different from 3e. It baffles me to be honest. In 2e, as you say, this encounter is winnable. In 3e and in 4e, this is a TPK in the making. 30 mummies plus an anti-paladin, plus a lich? If you aren't scraping the party off the walls after this, you're not trying very hard.</p><p></p><p>Mechanically, 3e shares very, very little with 2e. Yet, people seem to want to lump 3e with AD&D and call 4e the outlier. I just don't understand how.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Like, I said, I've had very, very different experiences. I once had a player in a 2e game tell me that I couldn't use a manticore in the location I was using it in, because the climate/terrain was wrong. And he argued with me about it.</p><p></p><p>I'd also suggest you go back and reread those Dragon magazines that you are referencing. Gygax made no bones that if you were adding in all sorts of house rules, you weren't playing D&D anymore. Sage Advice columns go back a lot further than 3e. Sage Advice starts in Issue 31 in 1979. THAT'S how long rules arguments have been going on in public forums. Well, at least that long. </p><p></p><p>The idea that fiat was somehow more acceptable then and not now is a complete fabrication. Good grief, ten bajillion 3rd party product books for d20 D&D and somehow house ruling is less common? Who do you think wrote those books? </p><p></p><p>The difference with 3e is that 3e was based on actual play. Again, 20 years of gaming experience went into the design, instead of simply piggybacking on the original works, they sat down and looked at what groups were doing during play. Instead of having no rules for common actions like jumping over a pit, we got the Jump skill with a standard DC. </p><p></p><p>This is the exact same argument that's been trotted out since 3e was released. 3e did not take the authority of the DM and give it to the players. It took some of the authority that the DM had, and made it transparent and wrapped it up into the mechanics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6128002, member: 22779"] LOL. What level of an encounter would that be in 3e? Like you said, it's winnable in 2e with a 9th level party. That's an epic level encounter in 3e. There's just no comparison. Which rolls me back to the idea of why people find 4e so different from 3e. It baffles me to be honest. In 2e, as you say, this encounter is winnable. In 3e and in 4e, this is a TPK in the making. 30 mummies plus an anti-paladin, plus a lich? If you aren't scraping the party off the walls after this, you're not trying very hard. Mechanically, 3e shares very, very little with 2e. Yet, people seem to want to lump 3e with AD&D and call 4e the outlier. I just don't understand how. Like, I said, I've had very, very different experiences. I once had a player in a 2e game tell me that I couldn't use a manticore in the location I was using it in, because the climate/terrain was wrong. And he argued with me about it. I'd also suggest you go back and reread those Dragon magazines that you are referencing. Gygax made no bones that if you were adding in all sorts of house rules, you weren't playing D&D anymore. Sage Advice columns go back a lot further than 3e. Sage Advice starts in Issue 31 in 1979. THAT'S how long rules arguments have been going on in public forums. Well, at least that long. The idea that fiat was somehow more acceptable then and not now is a complete fabrication. Good grief, ten bajillion 3rd party product books for d20 D&D and somehow house ruling is less common? Who do you think wrote those books? The difference with 3e is that 3e was based on actual play. Again, 20 years of gaming experience went into the design, instead of simply piggybacking on the original works, they sat down and looked at what groups were doing during play. Instead of having no rules for common actions like jumping over a pit, we got the Jump skill with a standard DC. This is the exact same argument that's been trotted out since 3e was released. 3e did not take the authority of the DM and give it to the players. It took some of the authority that the DM had, and made it transparent and wrapped it up into the mechanics. [/QUOTE]
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